Another interesting YT channel is Audio Excellence, a Canadian retailer and they review and compare brands like Macintosh, Cayin Hegel etc and there’s one episode where they compare Primaluna to Cayin. It would seem that Cayin manufacture Primaluna under a OEM deal which would explain the similarity of the back panels.
I personally think that as good as they are, Primaluna are pricey Cayins. Used, they are better value.
Yes, the AE guys are really good. Was just browsing the Cayin Jazz 90 unboxing video. Looks really nice.
Wasn’t able to find anything on Cayin vs Primaluna on the channel (although I wasn’t looking too hard.) If you have some keywords to search, would be helpful - I’d like to watch it.
It was in an older episode about the Cayin 100 and they discussed the option of Pimaluna.In Canada Cayin have a distributer and they are stockists, they were discussing the options such as Primaluna which they seemed to think was a pricey and less attractive proposition.
Fwiw I’ve Currently five tube amps all of which I’ve owned from between three to ten years. The oldest is still on the original tubes which have probably eight thousand hours on them. The last time I tested the valves they were still showing plenty of life (I have a tester).
I started using tube amps about twenty years ago and went down the rabbit hole chasing grail nos tubes. The last few years I’ve brought modern manufactured ones mainly as have been not wanting to put lots of hours on my small collection of sought after nos tubes. Now I purchased many of these 15-20 years ago and they were expensive then but now the costs of some popular no’s tubes make no sense other than as collectables and being rare. Modern tubes are often excellent to my mind if starting out chasing old nos tubes is a fools game the modern offerings are really good for a fraction of the price and significantly less risk that goes with buying 60-70-80 year old tubes.
Thanks - the search is on!
So I’ve looked and can’t seem to find a review of the 100. Was doing some other browsing and came across a Thomas Tan video where he was reviewing the CS55. Made some offhanded mention of the Primaluna 100 and Willsenton sounding more like solid state amps, but that was about it. If anyone has an idea where there’s a comparison video of those three, pls let me know as I can’t seem to find it.
What tube amps does your dealer stock? I’d start there.
My normal dealer doesn’t stock any of the three - but there is a Cayin dealer near me so that’s most likely where I’ll start.
And those make sense as a number of them are both EL34 and KT88 compatible.
I had two Chinese-built valve amps until recently. They are great fun, look amazing and sound fabulous. If I were going back to valves I’d go with Primaluna, probably with EL34 power valves (the KT120s and KT150s are only made by Tung Sol in Russia and they are expensive now and might be hard to track down). EL34s are readily available. Primalunas also use ECC82 and ECC83 valves which are readily available new, and are still manufactured in Europe.
Avoid holding huge stocks of spare valves because they really don’t need replacing as often as some fear. I used mine frequently and worked them hard but never needed to replace any. Think of a good few years before changing power valves. Even longer for the driver valves.
Thanks. I had a quick listen to a Cayin CS55 EL34 and it sounded like I expected it to. Even through a pair of LS50 Metas I got that warmth plus some detail. Would like to try the KT88s but think I may give one of them a go - even without hearing the Primaluna
No one has mentioned the amp that practically started it all for a generationn of hi-fi nuts…the LEAK Stereo 20. IIRC this would output about 15 watts (the new incarnation says it provides 10 watts) and used readily available valves. They are now being made again with new components (including transformers). Perhaps not the ultimate in hi-fi these days (my one, sold many years ago hissed a little) but they are relatively inexpensive and good fun, also reliable (with the exception of one power resistor which gets very hot). IIRC they are about £1,000 for a new one and perhaps £900 to £1200 for a refurbished original. There was also the Stereo 60 but this is uncommon these days.
M_F,
hi. I am at my third (and last, hopefully) pair of Heresy IIIs. I’ve globally heard them - here, same room - with:
While I am not sure that low-powered tube amps are the right choice for the H IIIs (they definitely need watts), I have to admit that the amp with which they sounded better was the PrimaLuna. Second best, the TEAC. The Quads are lovely and musical but a little ‘warm’ and ‘dark’ for large speakers sitting on the floor. UK is apparently full of 2nd hand A-H500is, BTW.
Best with your choice.
M
PS
I’ve also owned the renown Line Magnetic LM518IA - not with H IIIs - and honestly, I resold it quick enough.
M_F,
since I think you’re entering a complex and somehow unsafe territory, I feel like giving you some more of my personal experience.
Tube amps, especially those with low power and single-ended, have usually little or no negative feedback, a high-ish output impedance which translates into a low damping factor. This was good when the Heresy first was released: its woofer was max 50W, the crossover relatively simple and tubes were all that there was.
Present Heresy are built for 100W rms and 400W peaks, have a complex crossover and an impedance module that goes a little lower than 5ohm at some point. If you plan to listen at low volumes please try good tubes, but remember that speakers make tube amps behave differently at different frequencies, so it’s all just a matter of the type of sonic ‘aberrations’ you love most.
I was amazed at how good a €300 amp of twenty years ago like the TEAC A-H500i made my H IIIs sound. I still have it and am still undecided about it and the Quads. All the others - some very costly - are forgotten.
Best again
M
(In a nutshell: tubes need a flat-ish and regular impedance and phase pattern, not sensitivity; Klipsches need watts to sound as intended.)
I wonder, if tube amps were not in general so beautiful, would we still be lured into using them?
Mind ox brutalist rather than beautiful and… yes.
I think so. Some of the most popular tube amps on the market hide the tubes entirely inside the case with no visible cage, protruding output transformers or anything. Just a normal looking amp.
When using tubes in the rectifier, more of a 50-60Hz wobble is left on the DC output to the power amp compared to transistor based rectification. And one of the reasons I’ve read about, is that this low frequency wobble is what many people interpret as warmth because that frequency is close to the sub bass that underpins a baritone human voice. It’s imperceptibly subtle but our subconscious registers it and responds approvingly.
I like the fact that tube amps come in a wide variety and whether you like to play and roll your own tubes or want something hands off that is entirely serviced by the manufacturer, there is a tube amp for every type of user.
That’s great stuff - thanks! I’m going to punt this into the new year and try to enjoy the gear I’ve got for the next 2 weeks. So far, for ease of dealer / support +price, the Cayin seem to be the leader in the clubhouse. That could change though 
You think there’s enough cowbell in them for the Heresy IIIs?
I’ve owned several Decware amps over the years - some new, some used.
They are built like tanks with lifetime warranties so don’t be afraid to buy 2nd hand.
Purchasing used is a low risk approach to dipping your toes in the tube amp pool.
You can easily sell it later and get most if not all of your money back.
Klipsch and Decware is a very popular pairing.
I would suggest trying the SE84UFO model or if you’d like a little more headroom, the 5 watt SE34I (aka Rachael) can both be purchased used for under $2k.
Hard to get in Europe? I don’t see a lot around.
