I would certainly use resin fixings in preference to expansion bolts in virtually any situation where heavy loads need supporting. It’s usually easier to locate the fixings accurately too. I often ditch supplied fixings and cut threaded bar to length instead.
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I use a Quadraspire one with my ‘Klimax’ LP12. 3 improvements I’ve found worthwhile: 1 aesthetic/simple-reverse the wooden shelf so the straight edge is at the front and matches the Fraim better. 2 SQ ones: adding Fraim cups/bearings and glass shelf on top of the wooden level (significant improvement) and swap the screw shelf supports for the brass versions (massive improvement)…
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I hunted down a Sound Org shelf from the 1980’s on eBay. Massive difference over the Ikea Lack table I had before. It also saves the cost of a Trampolin base as that is unnecessary. The actual shelf is made from chipboard I think and is quite thin
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I seem to remember that the Sound Organisation tops were vinyl covered 12mm chipboard. Apparently, chipboard is supposed dissipate energy slightly better than MDF. I always found the SO tops and tables to sound rather lush, warm and musical but not the last word in detailed.
The top on our “LP12” table is indeed vinyl covered but only 8mm thick. It is still in use in my wife’s system. We also bought the wall mount table in the early ‘90s (because of toddlers with prying fingers!), but that went manky when in storage, and went to the great recycling centre in the sky.
Ah…yes, I stand corrected. They were 8mm thick. I did try various thicknesses of glass and MDF on my old Sound Organisation table but nothing sounded quite as balanced as the original top.
8mm sounds about right to me. I did find that the Aerolam shelf which was available as an upgrade improved on the regular shelf.
My Target wall shelf cost about £70 back in the 90s. It had a serious upgrade years ago - new and bigger masonry bolts.
I have used it for an Orbe and compared that to the top of a 2 level Fraim and an old Sound Org rack - for the Orbe, no audible difference to us.
With the LP12, a wall shelf was always needed - my floor is bouncy. We experimented with tempered glass and Fraim balls and cups. We tried wood and granite chopping boards, various isolation devices, glass instead of the MDF shelf and all that. Funnily enough, all were worse than just putting the LP12 (without base) on the MDF shelf.
We also compared it to the top shelf of my huge granite HNE rack - don’t do that with an LP12 please.
Perhaps Ivor was right by just recommending ‘something light and rigid’?
The only improvement to the basic shelf that we have found came from a TA Stiletto plinth and Skorpion baseboard. More neutral, better with sibilance (oddly) and quieter backgrounds, but the difference was very small until the volume gets enthusiastic.
I’d be interested in the results if someone want st put 6 or y shelves on a wall ad then compare how they make an LP12. Not on my wall though.
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Interesting outcomes - I did read your thread on your various experiments with chopping boards, marble, glass and so forth and probably like many on this forum, I have to balance domestic harmony with absolute sound quality. To be fair, aesthetics are not unimportant to me too, so any support shelf has to look good as well as sound good. I know that many recommend the Vulcan shelf, but I can’t get on with its looks. I use the older version of the Quadraspire Q4 ( with glass shelf rather than bamboo) and this should visually match the Simraks that I am waiting to be delivered to my dealer. However, as stated above, I have some doubts about the absolute rigidity of the supporting arms. Hence my interest in the Solid Steel WS5. I’ve read that it’s a popular choice among LP12 owners in this forum, but there’s not been a lot of comment on the shelf’s performance. Perhaps it’s a case of ‘fit and forget’?
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I replaced the standard chipboard shelf that comes with my Target TT1 wall shelf with a piece of 3/4” Baltic Birch Ply often used in speaker manufacture. B grade so £45 for a 2’ piece that I cut down to 45 x 34cm. It’s very dense yet light and strong enough to resist sagging where the rear central foot is on the Tangerine LP12. Sonic improvement over the chipboard IMO. I keep meaning to paint it black.
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I think that you are dead right: few of us fit one and then try another a year later for a shoot-out based on SQ.
My suspicion is that my old ears would have no ability to pick between any good shelf that fits the ‘light and rigid’ description versus any other. That doesn’t mean that others can’t.
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Thanks. Since I have a Stiletto, this result is ultra-interesting to me. That looks like another cheap experiment waiting to be done. I probably won’t hear the difference, but lose almost nothing by trying.
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Could be worth trying to make a skeletal version…
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The contrast wood colors is interesting
Breaks up all the black
David
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I transitioned from mana shelf to a WS5 when I replaced my Xerxes X with a Vertere MG. The MG is quite a lot bigger than the Xerxes and wouldn’t fit onto the mana shelf. I did change shelves before taking delivery of the new MG and thought that the WS5 was an improvement on the mana shelf from a sound quality perspective with the Xerxes. This was a pleasant surprise. It’s also quite easy to install. I’ve since downsized my system and have space for the turntable on my fraim.
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I am setting up a new stereo space and this gallery of shelves looks pretty great. Especially like the 2 shelf version to hold a phono stage near the table.
Please don’t post unauthorised commercial links here. Thanks.
Whoops sorry. It had no items for sale on that page so I thought it was ok.
Here is a review of the shelf on a review site that is not selling the product directly. Salient feature being the second shelf (they also do a super one with single shelf if desired).
..or unauthorised reviews of non-naim products. Thanks.
The poster after you have taken your advice apparently. 