Unhappy with the new NAIM update

[Simon-in-Suffolk]

@Amarok

From what I understand is that you say that the way Naim devices have the clocks managed, it should not have been affected by the firmware update. Correct?

Yes… The firmware may have adjusted the shaping of the noise profile on the streamers . and on some system configurations of some products this is causing unintended effects.

Noise can modulate most components including clocks in minute amounts, but that is a different consideration.

[Geko]

Your experience of the new FW update is exactly the same as mine. Although my ND, for some reason, seem to have stabilised for the moment and been sounding reasonably good. However, my earlier comments on the space between the notes due to less noise still stands.

What I think maybe happening is that some random noise is being generated by something, perhaps the code and this is what you hear as a sort of strange distortion that maybe affects perceived timing? Perhaps it’s distortion at a particular frequency, hence the edginess you hear primarily on female vocals. I hear issues in the bass as well that I think could be linked to certain harmonics? Again, I’m only guessing and trying to use my hearing experience and acknowledge that I have no clue to what’s going on in the digital world.

[Amarok]

Where you speak of noise, is that the same as jitter?

[Simon-in-Suffolk]

I was being general.. such as noise in internal powerlines, ground planes or electro magnetic fields.
When noise modulates a clock, the phase period of the clock is modulated by microscopic amounts (standard consumer audio clocks are typically less than a billionth of a second - 0.5nS) which is jitter of the clock output. Most high end hifi (and other) manufacturers go to huge effort to physically and electronically isolate the clock output to keep it as stable as possible.

Clock jitter is sample reconstruction increases the noise floor (lessens the SNR) in the reconstructed audio. Its affect however is non linear with reconstructed frequency

(Source Audio Electronics: Is Digital Jitter Really a Problem? | audioXpress. )
It is generally considered that jitter below 30nS is not discernible by human beings.
1nS equals 1/1000,000,000 of a second.

[Amarok]

Thanks. Another wild guess now from my part: I live very close to a powerline, distance is less than 100 metres. Could the new firmware have made my ND5 XS 2 more sensitive to noise effects from that powerline?

[Simon-in-Suffolk]

I think that is highly unlikely……

[Amarok]

Thanks! Was hoping you would say that, as removing that powerline would be an extremely difficult task…

[dmu]

I’m sorry Simon but I’m just not knowledgeable enough about the factors you mention to give you an answer (in fact I’d never even heard of these things so I appreciate you always explain what you are talking about). I’m talking about my perception of the speed of the song. To me it sounds like when you up the playback speed in YouTube just slightly off.

[Simon-in-Suffolk]

Agh possibly can’t help you on the length of songs. Possibly to what extent you are engrossed by it?

[JerryR]

I think you are describing differences in pace.

[dmu]

That is probably it

[Darkebear]

@Amarok

When listening to music after the update, I experience from time to time a fatiguing sound from my set up. The music sounds messy to my ears at moments, and higher frequency tones sometimes make me twinge. This experience can change during the same listening session.

@Geko

Perhaps it’s distortion at a particular frequency, hence the edginess you hear primarily on female vocals. I hear issues in the bass as well that I think could be linked to certain harmonics?

Both of those I have also heard - lets hope it is fixed ahead.

@Geko

I remember vividly the first time I heard a familiar piece of music on a friends Statement system. I commented how much longer the track seemed and how well it was timed. Of course in reality the time the track took to play would be the same on any system but it’s the perception of the timing that’s important.

With this I concur that music does subjectively last longer. When I first got my Active system with the 552 Pre long ago my Dealer listened to one of his favorite classical tracks and said everythying was spaced-out and lasted longer as he percieved it.
On from then and with the S1 Pre it is more of the same and there is so much going on that an age unfolds in my mind and then you realise it has just been one track. So much information is present more than you normally hear that the sense of time is transformed and other strange stuff seems to happen.

But if measured by a machine it is the same length and all in your mind - fortunately.

DB.

[Fatcat]

Maybe the new firmware has caused an anomalous compression in the space time continuum.

[marcusman]

@Darkebear

On from then and with the S1 Pre it is more of the same and there is so much going on that an age unfolds in my mind and then you realise it has just been one track.

This effect happens to me as well. I look for it every time I update my system now. I noticed the first time clearly when I added the nDAC to my ND5xs2. My favorite songs seem to last longer i.e Coltrane solo seems to go on forever and I hear more “notes”

[marcusman]

@Amarok

removing that powerline would be an extremely difficult task…

Strange as this might seem, my neighborhood is just now recovering from a fierce windstorm that knocked out a powerline/transformer etc. Probably all in my mind but the net result of the replacement powerline/transformer is my system sounds even better than I remember.

[Amarok]

Than I’ll cross my fingers that Bert might cause some damage at this powerline…

[marcusman]

I wouldn’t wish going without Power for 3 days on anyone.

[Blackbird]

[Amarok]

Absolutely right. But I suppose you understand that it was a little tongue in cheek remark.

[marcusman]

Yep. 100% tongue in cheek. We love you Bert