Having recently had the opportunity, through the purchase of a Innuos Zenith MkiIi, to use as a comparison to the Naim Core. I have been left with the following observations;
(i) I really cannot hear much difference in sound quality, between the Core and Zenith. Certainly not to justify the 2.5 price differential, Core (£2199) and Zenith 2TB (£5099).
(ii) Yes the software on the Innuos, for CD ripping database is superior to the Core, but not by much.
Now here is the rub, why on Innuos can you can rip a multiple disc (box set) album, which will show as just one album. If you select the album, it will show all the the tracks and the individual discs of the album. If you select play, below title and artist, then the entire album (box set) will play. However, if you wish to play a individual disc in the album, then you can by pressing play for the individual disc.
Now, I realise you can play the whole album (box set) on the Core, by creating a playlist and the playing of individual discs by just selecting and pressing play. However, this seems a bloated way of organising the CD rip database and playing a multiple disc album or the individual disc.
It would be so much better, if for example a 3 disc album appeared as one album on the Core. If then selecting the album, all the the 3 discs and content would show. This would allow the operator the choice of playing the entire album or a individual disc.
So, how about it Naim. Surely it cannot be beyond your resources to implement the above. Innuos even give their customers the chance to vote for software features they would like added.
If for reasons unknown, the above could not be achieved by Naim, then please can someone from Naim come on here and explain, why? If I had to take a guess, from reading other members contributions on Core future software features. Then this has got to be top or very neatly top of the list.
As they say in show business…………over to you Naim.
I too tried the Zenith, liked the software, but it did not sound much better to my ears. As for the Core and significant upgrades we have been met with a wall of silence, it seems to be the “ugly” duckling of the Uniti family. I then decided to move to Melco which sounds much better, but has awful software……other than being able to do direct downloads from Qobuz.
The Core has just received a firmware upgrade, but I believe it’s only to update the metadata search. I don’t see any difference really between: 1) first being able to select all discs in a set to play sequentially and subsequently being able to select an individual disc from the set; and, 2) being able to select an individual disc to play and, if required, to add a subsequent disc to follow on at the end. On balance, I prefer the latter as it what I’m used to. I don’t have any issue with the operation either, I think the software is very good. Each to their own, I guess.
As you say, ‘each to his own’. However, as they say ‘don’t knock it, till you’ve tried it’
One of the other benefits, is that the multiple disc albums only display as one disc. When ripping multiple discs, you have to play about with the metadata i.e. naming disc 1 as title and disc 1, disc 2 as title and disc 2 …etc. Innuos software just recognised disc 1 being ripped as part of a multiple disc set. Subsequent disc were automatically recognised.
I think most people just want to rip their CD’s and not have to think about fumbling around with metadata.
Just as an aside, at Axpona in Chicago earlier this year the rep for Innous mentioned that the Zen’s utilize the “newest” version of wave for ripping where artwork, etc. could be
viewable on any other device. So no need for a Song Kong wave tagging workaround apparently.
I ripped a couple of double CDs on Thursday and the Core recognised these discs as part of a set and labelled them …Disc 1, …Disc 2. I haven’t ripped any opera sets since I’ve owned the Core, but I never had any issues with the NS01, which would do likewise even up to Disc 14 for the initial CD issue of the Böhm Ring.
Edit: that’s not actually true. I have just checked and found that the Böhm cycle is split into the four individual operas, but these are each labelled Disc 1, Disc 2 etc.
Agreed, David. Unfortunately this happens very infrequently, unless the operator is a Taylor Swift fan. Go try a Innuos device and see how many of the rips have the correct metadata and multiple discs are compiled into one album.
Hi Dunc. Yes, did this in the past, with rips done by Melco D100 ripper onto SSD in Nucleus. Trouble is, I did not think the SQ playback of the Nucleus was as good as the Naim
Hi glassnaim. Yes, as you correctly pointed out, it is streamer/server. However, as stated already I found the difference between the Core and Innuos servers, was negligible. In streamer mode, I found the Naim 222 to be superior… I did try the Innuos in USB mode, into Sonore Ultra digital and then into 222. Again, negligible difference to using ethernet connection.
Thanks for the info Quad57. However, I have parted with my Zenith and Phoenix-net.
Thanks Clive . I think David Hendon was saying similar, above.
I still say, why you have to have so much clutter on your device screen, when displaying multiple disc albums. I suggest the next hi-fi show, go and see another manufacturer I.e. Innuos and see how their multiple disc albums are interfaced. Just because Naim have done it their way, does not necessarily make it the best way.
In fact I ask @Richard.Dane if he can interface with Naim to provide a answer. I also ask if Naim, like Innuos, have thought of setting up a web page where customers/members could make suggestions for features that could be incorporated by updated firmware into certain Naim products.?
I found the same both times i tried it as well, but not with naim.
It’s a shame that they haven’t invested more into the sound quality, especially with the new roon nucleus, especially with it’s huge price increase.
But some are, and hopefully they will get better as more move away from basically just using off the shelf pc part’s
I would like to think so. However, with Harman Karon taking over, the future is uncertain. I would presume the Titan and new Nucleus was in advanced development before the takeover.
Hi @NoNaim , I’m aware of the two servers, I demoed the Core when my UnitiServe died, I went for the Innuos Zen at that time, I felt it had better functionality, Roon, UPnP streamer etc, as you said sound comparison wasn’t critical.
I have only heard the 222/333 at my dealers, sounded nice. The comparison between Innuos and Naim streamers has many variables. The DAC pairing for the Innuos, also which Innuos or Naim streamer you choose. So it can be misleading to make general comparisons.
I’m talking about classical sets, although there are other problems there because individual CDs are often (even frequently) used in different sets. But this is all down to the metadata publisher, not Naim.
Anyway there is no chance that I will try an Innuos device, let alone a Taylor Swift multi disc set!
Good point that you raise, of the variables involved between using Core and Zenith (Zen). I think if your choice came down to sound quality difference, that you found that to be negligible. Please correct me if I have misinterpreted your comment. Now you bought a Zen, which is significantly cheaper than a Zenith. However, we will stick with the Zen, which is only slightly more higher priced than the Core.
Now let me ask you this, if the Core software had been as good as the Innuos, would you still have bought the Zen. I understand that if Roon was important to you, how that could be the deciding factor. Maybe the Mkii of the Core or it’s replacement will have it incorporated. However, that is all for the future. My point is, the software can be changed now to give the operator a better experience of using the Core.
P.S. As I have a Roon Nucleus, I compared running Roon on Nucleus, away from Fraim, to Roon on Zenith in Fraim rack. To be honest with you, if there was a difference I could not easily tell. The only point was the Nucleus was marginally quicker in response to the Zenith.
Maybe I’m missing something , but I put a CD in the Core and it does a rip. However, it does not find the corresponding metadata for that CD. I place the same CD into a Innuos Zenith (Zen) and lo and behold it finds the relevant metadata for that CD. So it has to do with Naim and that is before we get to how the database is structured
Look, I have said it before and say it again. I’m not Naim bashing here. I believe the Core is a very good product, let down by something that is correctable. It is not if I’m alone in this viewpoint. How many people on here have criticised the Core, not for the hardware, but for it’s software.
I really would like to put this too bed, once and for all. So I ask @Richard.Dane if he can find out or someone from Naim to explain the points raised and if or not any of the changes could be made.
Yes mine does also. I think I have two, which are not recognised at all. As you correctly state, this is easily rectified by manually entering the corresponding metadata.
However, put the discs in another manufacturer’s machine and the corresponding metadata is automatically found. Hence, my point raised with @davidhendon.
I was hoping yourself or someone from Naim, could come on here and explain the difference.
Also, why the Core does not display a multi disc album, as one album instead of all the individual discs. If you have a lot of multi disc albums, it takes up a considerable size of real estate on your display. If you think of a manual filing system, you would not do it this way. I hope you can find the answers or find someone else to explain the reasons for the above questions
Naim has licences for the Core to consult three metadata databases and they can only use the data those databases send them. No doubt Innuos use another database.
All the CD has on it is a registration number and there is no other data that anyone can get electronically from the CD, so it’s not Naim’s fault if even Rovi doesn’t know what that registration number relates to!
