Are you suggesting that only a psu that has been ‘tested and accredited’ with your router is safe to use or could improve SQ in a streaming system?
Surely not.
If not, then why are you mentioning ‘tested and accredited’ in this context?
What would be useful would be if you would say what specifications need to be matched between the stock psu and any replacement that people might try? Volts, amps…and?
Or are there so many variables that you cannot define them?
Also - how much do you think the psu costs that comes ‘free’ with an ISP ‘free’ router?
As you know, these are generally very cheap psus, even though ‘tested and accredited’ - and are not designed at all with the effect of EM noise on hifi SQ in mind.
I’d guess the SMPS that came bundled with my current router cost about 10p to make. It makes your average wall wart look well constructed.
It’s rated at 9V 1A. My Google search then dug up something called the AUNE XP2 Linear Power Supply. Never heard of the company, but the reviews are positive and it’s cheap enough for an experiment. Anyone have any experience?
Note: I upgraded a previous ISP router with a generic Chinese LPS; seemed to bring a marginal improvement.
I get the feeling what Simon is really driving at is it is ridiculous that so called Audiophiles have gone and created this bandwagon of nonsense. haha.
no - but you should check with your router or whatever device manufacturer if there are any specific requirements for an after market power supply - such as HF decoupling or command mode noise choke of a specific value. The device would have been validated with these on.
There seems to be a view in some parts that electronic power supplies are all plug and play. Many are for devices that are mobile - like phones etc - but others are not -and you may see a status only used approved PSU or similar. This can because of EMI compliance and other reasons of voltage tolerance etc.
indeed - I must admit I try not to have a wry smile that some might have added after market LPS onto devices that were not intended for them - and have actually caused a situation producing greater radiated noise that what they had before.
But the bottom line as to the OP is about broadband modem routers, and the modem part is very sensitive to noise - xDSL can be extremely sensitive to this - and so shielding decoupling etc are going to be quite considered. Shoving a pig and a poke LPS onto router without considering these things is just stupid - and perhaps shows a lack of understanding of what matters and what is happening.
A cheap LPS could be making matters worse - poor electrolytics - poor HF noise decoupling - and say half wave as opposed to full wave bridge rectification.
well I am involved in music production, and timbre and tonal colour are down to spectral accuracy, frequency phase and eq. Reality of instruments of a sound is made up of many things.
Spatial information is about transients and accurate phase into the HF between the channels…
And yes in music production many of these things are often enhanced or ‘managed’ to exaggerate to make a recording mix sound and feel more enjoyable and natural -or sometimes the other way. There are a myriad of tools to help mange colour, timbre, spatial separation, dynamic compression, dynamic eq, psychoacoustic spectrum management - (can make a track more bouncy or appear to time better ). For example in much recorded music vocals are very much processed - non processed vocals - which are the most accurate - can often sound flat, lacking emotion and lifeless by comparison.
And yes although it can be manipulated in a deterministic way - one still uses inspection to carefully confirm the effect of the mix. A mix can have wonderful technical attributes such as separation and tonal colour but still sound aesthetically poor.
The recording and replay chain is compromised and limited so often a recording or a mix needs to be helped to convey what is wanted from the music for when it is replayed.
There have been some iconic mastering and mixing tools that have helped achieve this since the early 70s such as the Abbey Road studios EMI TG12410 that I believe was used on DSOTM for example.
well music and even sounds are subjective on whether they sound good or not as a piece of music or sound art (although in Western music there are certain tonal shifts and successions that are considered agreeable together and others that are not - but of course whether a piece of music sounds interesting, or banal or whether one appreciates the resonances from a Steinway grand piano can only really be determined by a human - and not all humans are the same…) Not sure why you need to be careful about that - unless I am missing something
The same with mains leads, fuses, mains plugs, in fact HiFi in general. Most people i know think it’s nothing more but ‘gaslighting’. Why bother to be even involved at all?
I think we have to accept that you and I have a fundamentally different take on measurement vs subjectivism and that’s OK, I mean this debate is in all the hi-fi forums. You seem happy to accept music is responded to subjectively but hi fi is not? Maybe I misunderstand you, not sure. But I get the impression you feel every possible audible difference in hi fi gear can be measured and that that is what we should pay attention to rather than subjective reactions to gear. There is no resolution to these debates, both sides dig in and are convinced they are right. All I know is that when I go to audition hi fi I don’t ask the dealer to show me charts and graphs. I go to listen, often armed with some very familiar CDs. If I like a certain bit of kit, beyond basic specs I don’t care how it performs on some graph vs another bit of kit. It’s the same with things like audiophile ethernet switches etc. I’m a Yorkshireman and in stereotypical fashion there’s no way I will part with my cash unless I hear something makes a worthwhile difference. I have returned hi fi products that I have not been impressed with. But when I listened to audiophile switches they made a difference, a pleasant one, even though I was a sceptic prior to auditioning. The same thing with putting an LPSU on my router. Half expected to return it for a refund but was pleasantly surprised. I don’t need some complex sound measuring and analysis equipment to tell me that, I just use my mk1 human ears. I don’t mind folks being obsessed with measurement, that’s fine, but leave other folk be if they want to trust their ears. That’s my take. But these are the perennial arguments you can read on all hi fi forums of course and it’s all been said a million times before.
In which case you’d assume most would notice a decrease in SQ and remove the LPS. Part of the fun of this hobby is experimentation.
I’ve got £9K worth of Naim PSUs in my rack. It’s hugely tempting to try a £100 LPS (in a peripheral part of the system) to see if it improves SQ over a £1 SMPS. We don’t need advanced electronics know-how for this, just a pair of ears…
I think its interesting people always hear these differences from bits like 3 times removed from the hifi, but its your money I guess. My router is in the garage, along with the networking, obviously things like this which are a. ugly, and b noisy (i.e. fans) should never be next to the hifi any way, including NASes etc otherwise you are simply peeing in the wind.
Still fill your boots, it keeps companies in business.
Ok, i’ve plugged in my new iFi iPower2 12v-1.8 amp Silent power supply into my TP-Link AC2100 router.
Listening to Tidal HiFi tier with very familiar material i listen to on a daily through some Grado SR325 E cans.
First impressions are i think positive. I’m perceiving a less grainy presentation with a little more gentleness than before. Bass too seems a little more improved. A nice crispness to the higher notes, like the crunching of a freshly cut Iceberg lettuce i know, i know but it’s true.
The packaging feels very Apple product like. Amazing considering the £59 layout.
Indeed, if you go back over the last 16 years or so of my participation on this forum I totally agree. (Just go back to the eruption over the Hugo and the Cisco 2960 in place of the then staple Netgear switch I caused all those years ago). You also will see I am critical of pseudo technical babble to try and justify a subjective take. I respect, and many of us who have been around here a long time also respect( thinking of dear George as I write this with his home made internal FM aerials) , those that say they prefer the how their system sounds with what ever adjustment or tweak with what ever rather than justifying it it on questionable pretences or fads. If you are going to use technical considerations, you should expect to explain and be quizzed by those who are professional engineers in this or similar spaces… it would be disrespectful not to
So if you like to have your broadband router powered by batteries because you like how it modifies the sound of your system, then state that… why try and hide that… but stating noise floors and other such fashionable audiophile cliches without really knowing what you are referring to just diminishes your statement… and makes bland reading. I suppose the cliches change, inky blackness for example is not quite as common as it used to be.
My point about devices and powersupplies, you should be careful so as to compromise their EM designed performance. Sure changing the noise profile can change the sound and you may well like what it does… see my posts on Naim firmware for example… but do remember there is a world outside of Hi-Fi and the CE / UKCA and other regulations mean something. But sure if you break your products EM compliance certification I don’t think anyone is going to come knocking on your door.
I stopped using my router as the main distribution hub years ago…I bought a 24 port gigabit Cisco switch second hand … (about £100) and put everything through that…that was a big upgrade to speed and sound quality…my AQ Vox hifi switch hangs off this… My router just pulls in the broadband and links to the Cisco. The built in cisco psu appears to be pretty good.
I use a switch as well - an EE8 switch with it’s own LPSU. But I still found adding a LPSU to my internet router had a positive effect on my listening enjoyment
@Moonglum Now look what you’ve done!
I’ve been following this thread with interest and amusement. It’s got pedantic (but then it usually does) with some valid and enlightening opinions aired.
I think in all honesty ‘perception bias’ plays a part but there’s nothing wrong with that. Personally I like what I have and like what I hear so am quite happy in my own little world.
As the BT ads said years ago - “it’s good to talk” !
Perception bias as you put it MAY factor here but I shall add my thoughts briefly on that. I am a bit of an expert actually on this as I am a research psychologist (a Psychology Professor at a UK university) and I both teach about and research things like cognitive biases. I smile wryly to myself when folks on various forums try to school me on expectancy bias and confirmation bias. They think this explains why in their view some people are “taken in” by such things as audiophile network switches, fancy hi fi cables etc. Usually it is the measurement addicts that seek to explain everything away using psychology. I sometimes try to explain that while confirmation bias might explain some cases where someone is positive that a tweak has made a positive difference, it absolutely can not explain cases where someone approaches a tweak with great scepticism and then finds to their surprise that it makes a worthwhile change to the sound of their rig. So we see this on the two threads about the EE 8 switch audio grade ethernet switch for example. There were plenty of “my Cisco is fine I don’t ned anything else” sceptics yet when they tried an 8 switch they found to their dismay it improved the sound of streaming even though they expected it would not. If you go in expecting a tweak to fail, you absolutely can not explain that away as expectancy bias, as you expected it to fail but are reporting that it did the opposite !! I’ve even had folks tell me I must be a really crap Professor if I like certain hi fi gear like network switches. It’s water off a duck’s back to be honest.
When I installed my AQvox switch I was gob smacked at the difference…it was a huge improvement…I have received allot of negative reaction to this…in the end gave up telling people…I suspect the EE would be even better…
i know, i know 
but it’s true.