I have several items of valve gear, DAC with valve pre out, Pre-amp and headphone energiser, they don’t get much, if any use these days.
Of course they are charming, that warm glow, the feeling that you can see how they are made inside, the ease with which you can tinker, ‘tube rolling’ but the reality is they are simply the forerunner to the transistor, they serve a very similar task and in the line level small signal audio world they work reasonably well, almost as well as a well designed solid state bit of kit but requiring a lot more space/power/ventilation and maintenance.
Ok for the romance of it all, but I wouldn’t buy them for their sound quality, unless you play guitar or Hammond organ, then their ‘interesting’ characteristics are appreciated and the extra hassle and distortion might work with you. :0)
I wouldn’t say I mix valves with Naim exactly. I have a valve amp system and I have a Naim system. Both are main systems. I love both systems. They do different things.
One thing about valves is they won’t necessarily sound valveish. That warm sound people mention mostly comes from the rectifiers rather the output stage and most from the amp being pushed a little too hard for it’s ability. So a valve amp with solid state rectification or a valve amp that has tubes you might expect to allow more power but don’t, will often sound a lot like solid state.
I have a friend who also has a valve amp and we have very different experiences. He like to roll his own valves. So spends a lot on NOS valves and ends up with maybe a 20% yield. There are a lot of valves that no longer work and a lot of fuses blowing (quite violently in his amp after a failed pairing).
I’m not into that. My valve amp has tubes carefully selected by the manufacturer (they reject 60% of everything they buy from JJ). And while you can just plug your own in, it isn’t supported. They are bit like Naim in that respect. You are expected to send the amp to the mothership every 10 years for them to fit approved and selected tubes. I’m fine with that.
The low power isn’t an issue. I get buy with just 10wpc but many amps out there are less than 5wpc. You just get acquainted with a totally different subset of speaker brands than you are used to with solid state amps. They are out there. Finding some 98db speakers to pair with a 10w amp in a large room isn’t as hard as you think. And electricity bill isn’t a major issue. You never leave a valve amp on “warmed up”. So my 10w amp might pull 100w when powered on but that’s only for 1 hour every 2 days.
For the record, yes, my vinyl system is the valve system. Mine isn’t a warm sounding amp. But it has a degree of transparency and a low noise floor my far more expensive 282/SCdr/250dr just can’t come close to - not by miles.
It’s not that I prefer a different sound, I love the Atom HE and wouldn’t be without it. Think of it like this, people often have more than one pair of headphones to use depending on what they’re listening to or the mood they’re in.
Being able to switch from Solid State & Tubes is no different. I don’t think there is anything wrong or unusual with that. Buying Naim gear doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate other gear or, mean I have to sell my Naim gear because I do. If you see what I mean
NP… It just got to me thinking why don’t we actually see more instances of people with multiple amps (as in tube amp alternative) in main systems. I’d imagine it’s size, space etc. Funnily enough though, my tube amp will be mainly Jazz, Blues and classical etc . Not sure it will beat Naim for EDM, Electronic etc!
Not sure the sentence was written towards me, so I will respond why I still post on Naim forum: I have a Nap 250 dr and an Nds/555 dr.
But the day, contrary to some, I will have no more Naim item, not sure I will continue to post here. Some do that and denigrate Naim, saying how much better the other brands they have now is better than previously Naim gear they had. It’s specially irritating.
I actually found that Electronic music sounded great with my tube system. The innate speed and separation of that type of music flattered the AN gear. Most classical symphonies ( along with around 75% of all else) sounded somewhat flat and compressed compared with what I listen to now. I do own virtually the best gear gear Naim manufacture though ( apologies if that sounds arrogant) so results and comparisons lower down the hierarchy might be different.
On the mixing and matching subject I have been made aware from a dealer friend in the US that matching valve pre’s with SS power amps doesn’t usually work. One of the Audio T managers told me the same. I have no experience of it though. There is an argument for a valve CD transport/ DAC which might work well with a SS amp. The AN digital front that I owned was very good.
Some interesting comments I never thought of getting a valve headphone amp but might look into that as an option. I don’t use my headphones that often and it may not make financial sense though.
Most entry level valve headphone amps (just 1 tube) are hybrids using solid state rectification.
On the other hand if you wanted to dip a toe in, some low power valve amps are dual purpose where the output stage to the speakers and output to headphones are the same. So you could build a fully functional second system around headphones and then hunt for a pair of high efficiency speakers to complete the setup.
I would look for a nice second hand push-pull valve integrated with EL34s. They are powerful enough to use with most speakers and you wouldn’t have to worry about matching between the amplifier and the preamp.
There is something very special about the sound of good valve amplifiers and I’m sure that many would be surprised to discover their sweet sound and tonal subtilities. I am pretty sure that many tube amp owners use Naim sources with theirs, although I confess I never had a Naim source myself.
We had the Joule Electra VZN 100 MonoBlock OTL amp and the LA-150 preamp for 13 years until I got the NAP 300 in 2013. Six big tubes per side in series, no output transformer. 300 watts per side, 200 watts of heat. 100 watts of music. Great sound but so fiddly with a manual variac and manual tube bias issues, and occasional DC offset issues, that my wife hated it and she was ready to move on. When was she ever wrong? I will never get another tube amp.
The non-DR 300 was a nice upgrade. Tube sound without the brain damage, and better dynamics at low volume than anything I have heard. And less noise. I regret that I traded the NAP300 for a NAP500. The Joule Electra had the Naim PRaT sound in spades. But it was too boutique and too much trouble. Great amp in its day, though.
I’ve owned lots of tube gear. My experience is tube preamps are great and tube power amps can be problematic, but sound amazing! I currently have an Aesthetix Mimas. Integrated. It’s a hybrid tube preamp SS power amp. 150 wpc into 8ohms and almost double into 4. I also owned a Ayon tube Integrated for 3 years. All tubes, Class A, zero negative feedback. Switchable between Pentode 60 wpc and Triode 30 wpc. I really liked ARC preamp with SS like Levinson and Classe’
I’ve dabbled with a few tube amps that sell on the cheaper side. I would describe their sound as “loud”. Someday like to try a high-end tube amp like the Airtight or Kondo.
. Not sure it will beat Naim for EDM, Electronic etc!
