Vitus integrated amp v 552/500

Dunc,

This is a most interested thread that I’ve been following since the beginning.

I even prompted me to home demo an integrated amp (Gryphon Diablo 120) to see how it compared to my 552/300DR. Unlike you, the conclusion was evident, the 120 has impressive qualities but overall sounded very hi-fi as compared to my system.

I agree with you: trying something different with an open mind is interesting, if only to remember us how good our Naim system is.

Claude

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Thank you for the feedback regarding the Gryphon Diablo 120!

As I am contemplating an upgrade of my Nova/250 dr and the Gryphon Diablo 120 or the 300 seems like an interesting alternative, could you please elaborate what you mean with “sounding hifi”?

Is it less engaging, more sterile in lack for better words?

I’ll put it in words the best I can.

The 120 is a very well designed and built amplifier, and it shows - it has a strong, powerful bass (with more impact than my 552/300DR), lots of dynamics and gives plenty of detail. It also can give a general rhythm with conviction. Overall, a very fine piece of Hi-Fi equipment.

Listening to complex music, however, it shows its limitations. On Rachmaninov’s 3rd piano concerto, last movement, for example, there was sound coming from everywhere and the 120 made it very difficult to understand how Trifonov (pianist) and Nézet-Séguin (conductor) were interacting. With the 552/300DR it instantly made sense.

Listening to quiet lounge music (Diana Krall’s The Look of Love) the voice was more organic, strings were much better defined and the rhythm was more subtle with the 552/300DR. The 120 sounds like a very fine amplifier playing music, the Naim sounded like natural music.

One of my favourite test records is Gene Harris’ Cat Alley. It’s probably the best recorded live album I know and it has a mix of acoustic and electric instruments that is very demanding for a system. Because of the Dablo 120’s dynamics, I expected that album to be more engaging with it than with the 552/300DR. Not so. The sound was more impressive with the 120 if you tried to separate bass/medium/highs and to listen to them separately, but the registre was better integrated with the 552/300DR. At the same time, human voice, trumpet and saxophone sounded less metallic on the Naim too. Overall, I listened to 3 tracks with the 120. Then I re-listened to the same tracks with the Naim, and then to all the rest of the CD.

Overall, music was more impactful, more engaging and easier to understand with the Naim. No surprise there, that’s why I’ve remained a customer for more than 25 years.

Claude

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Well there are at least two of us, Dunc, because I tried and didn’t move as planned either. My journey virtually mirrored yours. But I did move to Gryphon. And it did, eventually, require new speakers; and cables. En route I was often tempted to just go back; but I got there in the end. Actually I couldn’t resist the move to full Class A and just last week changed the magnificent Diablo 300 for the new Essence pre/power - 2 boxes and I couldn’t be more in awe at what they do.
Loved my Naim sound; just grew in a different direction. I feel your struggle - you might try Stillpoints as you alluded to. They made an astonishing difference to opening up my sound, most especially under the dac. Hope it works out :slight_smile:

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Claude, thanks for putting your testing session into words. The diablo 120 is worth just below 10k, your Naim set-up is worth almost 30k ( all at new prices) so it is quite a relief that the Naim 552/300 is producing better SQ in your system. Any different outcome and I would have to start wondering why I have a 300DR.

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77 - the Diablo 300 is a bit different beast to the 120. Best is to listen to one.

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Hi Peter - do you have or did you try any panels placed for first reflections, too?

Hi Eagle. I have GIK Impression panels on ‘near‘ first reflection on both side walls. Problem being first reflection one side is literally behind my Fraim stacks and the other side on the door frame ( adjacent to entrance door to my listening room). The panels work well and can be specified endlessly for their appearance. ATB Peter

Well after a chat with the wise one tonight, i have been given the all clear for fraim, dont ask whats changed, as i for one wont, so that now begs the big question, fraim or 552 service and dr, will more than likely end up with both at some point, and might be better waiting for a fraim to pop up for sale, or x demo maybe and go for the 552 first ?
Shame i cant demo a fraim, as would like to see if i can hear the difference, it is surpost to bring over what i have.

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Many thanks for the comprehensive explanation!:smiley:

Thanks! I will.:+1:

Ah that’s a great angle, thanks Peter. I’m a big fan of GIK; especially the art panels which can be disguised as pictures.
I suffer worse than you, with a door on one first reflection and a blithering recessed window on the other!

The classic compromises eh!? :face_with_raised_eyebrow: ATB Peter

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I just look at the garage and think, this could be a great room, just for the system lol, but then the car would have to go and thats a hard pill to swallow.
Like the look off the panels, the wife said your joking right. But then the fraim was sort of given green light and thats a bonus

Try and talk through the Fraim colours. The lighter ones can be much less intrusive. But buying used is a good idea - just make sure nothing has been overtightened if you can.

How old is the 552?

@Dunc - be mindful a 6 (standard) shelf height unit of Fraim sits ~62cm from the floor to the level of the top glass shelf (i.e. ex-kit on top shelf) - and it’s 65cm wide.

You save a bit of height by using an intermediate (1.5x) shelf for the 500 - see post ~3750 on the System Pics thread…this always looks a tad tight to me, given the 500’s fan (icon) drives out of the top.

IMV, the key battle is to get the cable dressing resolved as best possible e.g. burndies off the floor et al.

My priority would be servicing if say the kit is roughly 10/11Y’s old as IME some of the 500 series PS’s benefit from this (rather than the suggested up to 15Y servicing timelines).

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Dont most such threads end with the op going away in the sunset with this awesome new amp only to come back a few years later declaring their folly and how they’ve come back to the naim fold?

Maybe survivor ship bias…

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I suspect of the many reasons behind parties (supposedly - anecdotal only) changing is driven by:

1- Some may not have heard/avidly investigated things like Class-A amps before and what qualities they offer. IME, main UK High Street dealers were focused on brands like Naim, Linn, Quad, Audiolab, MF (for a bit) - which conditioned people away from Class-A presentation. Plus, who wanted to faff with valves and alike and the need for system matching, plus any upgrade path for ‘narrow market’ kit was likely very expensive (Naim’s wasn’t).

2- Musical tastes change/perhaps mellow over time.

There’s no question that Class-A amps have a different presentation and can (in general) drive speakers better via their higher current flows. It’s all a matter of choice.

There’s much to be said for the simplicity/domestic utility of an integrated too.

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Totally…

In a room like this…most important is simplicity and room treatment but I guess that’s asking for too much…

Have you considered downsizing your speakers and electronics to match…within the Naim fold and to not worry about wires and their idiosyncrasies ?

That’s what made you try something else In the first place…the idea wasn’t wrong possibly …but options to be considered include simpler Naim systems…

I am assuming we are in it for the music…and not the boxes ( given the space restrictions )