Got it thanks
But if it doesnât recognise the album, at all or not correctly, then tough! When I last trialled Roon, wondering if it would be a solution to my metadata problems given how people have praised its ability to recognise and assign metadata, I found there were numerous albums it simply did not recognise!
The problem is very simple: without tedious, time-consuming work (done by you or by Roon or by Rovi or by Idagio curators, it doesnât matter who does the job) one will inevitably end up with with messy metadata. This does not mean that a collection (personal, local or online) is not usable. But it means that using it might not be very pleasant. Idagio have put a lot of care in consistently naming works (of classical music composers, this is their focus). I never could make sense of the way Roon managed my metadata but perhaps I was not patient enough. So far, I have tried Tidal, Roon, Idagio, Qobuz and spotify, some of them for longer than one year. I currently use none of them and I am not missing these services. However, I have a yearly subscription to the DCH.
It sounds like either I was lucky or you were unlucky!
I had around 3000 albums when I started using Roon and if I recall correctly there were about 120 unidentified albums at the beginning, so still 4% unidentified.
I resolved some of them but still have 111 left. These are generally samplers, cover CDâs etc. which I wouldnât necessarily expect anything to identify properly. For these I have to rely on my own metadata which is fine. You can see the sort of stuff I mean below. There are a few there that would be good for Roon to know about. You can submit the details which will resolve the problem but that is somewhat cumbersome to do.
The simplest solution - certainly for the user in this position, but also surely a simple one for software writers - is to allow the option of sorting/browsing/searching by filename/folder structure. Many, many people when they rip or download music save it in a methodical file structure that makes sense to them, making it easy to find anything. Filenames may be as ripped/downloaded, but again will have been suitably adjusted by the user in the event of, say, a different version of otherwise apparently the same thing. Facilitating searching by file name/structure could solve issues with classical music instantly, as well as coping with any other instances of poor or missing metadata.
Why people like Roon and Audirvana resist offering this facility totally beats me: it seems they think that metadata tags being the modern way is the be-all and end-all of data management and fail to recognise common alternatives - while users are left having to try to make their collections fit the software, which is not necessarily easy if what aspects of metadata the software looks at is not ckear, or if it differs between different software so that a collection working with one is problematic if the user decides to change the software (which could be tied to the player).
I know that some software does allow it, and one day the frustration of Audirvana not doing will drive me to change - I stick with it at the moment because I like its sound quality, while regardless I want to stick with a combined store/renderer avoiding network, and at the moment the Mac Mini is my device. There arenât many alternatives for high quality rendering software (and I didnât assess Roonâs sound quality in that mode, it offering no benefit for file handling).
I really like the Core.
ReasonsâŚ
No computer talent or aggro required. Plug and done.
Superb digital out sound quality. I use it with a dirt cheap Chord Mojo ($500) and it sounds great.
Flexibility of âDownloadsâ folder is great to add all your external digital music.
Searching is lightening fast and even with metadata limitations i never have any trouble finding anything immediately.
Huge 8TB drive support right out of box. Between cd rips, album rips, digital dowloads etc i have over 4,000 albums on it already.
Well builtâŚheavyâŚreally nice.
Easy to restore toâŚsome brands require you to send back in for new drive or get a password or whateverâŚnot the CoreâŚreplace the drive and restore from your backupsâŚeasy.
Some issuesâŚ
I do backups from my computer not from the Core. The Core backup only does the Music folder not the Downloads folder so it is virtually worthless.
Core uses nonstandard metadata which will be a bit of a hassle to move to something else later. For rock, jazz etc it is no problem because the metadata is simple and easy to move. For classical or your own recordings i rip on a pc, get the album name and artist right, and then load to the Dowloads folder.
From time to time i look in the âunknownâ folder in the Music folder and if anything is in there i move it to the Downloads folder to make it more transparent if i ever want to move to another server. Then i go to the app and remove it from the Music folder.
It is great.
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Hi @davidhendon
Firstly apologies for the delay in replying. Just getting back into gear after being on hols for a week 
Naturally on any product we all have our pros and cons, so the Core is not all things for all men and the thread above pokes at plenty of areas.
Firstly, why get a Core?:
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Pretty easy out of the box setup and use of operation - feed it CDâs, it rips em, then you play them.
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Goes well beyond what a standard UPnP server can do (like Melcoâs) as Core uses a different protocol to talk to our apps. This adds more powerful browse & search features from the Naim app, Tidal / Qobuz music library extensions, Rovi licenced artwork and overall its integrated into the naim apps.
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Itâs built around that its a proper Hifi product. Good SPDIF out, PSU doesnât poison the local mains, fits in with a hifi system rather than a piece of computer gear.
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Naim service and support. As those of you who have had NS01/02/03âs, HDXâs, Unitiserves, Naim are still looking after these devices to where its economical / viable. NS01âs are nearly 14 years old now and weâre still keeping them going - I have a support session with one on Monday to bring it up to latest code
Regarding Classical support, itâs a very fair comment. Our weakness comes down to that our system is very driven around the Rovi metadata system where everything is IDâs in the background and structured on their view of the classical world. If a user has a CD that falls out of those bounds then its very awkward to break the links but have it so future CDâs ripped fall into the correct categorisation. To do classical properly is tough as:
- Too many low run, rare specialist CDâs out there.
- Classical music enthusiasts are very opinionated on how their music is categorised.
- There isnât a great online CD lookup metadata database focused on classical.
- Often the user has to be committed to quite a lot of metadata editing to get it right.
Overall weâre always listening, so more detailed requests / comments are always welcome at steve.harris(at)naimaudio.com. Itâs one of those areas where we know to get it really nice is loads of work and we need to balance it with all our other commitments and also deliver something that is really worthy.
Best regards
Steve Harris
Software Director
Naim Audio Ltd.
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Sorry Steve, i feel that a number of us have been trying to support this product in the hope that Naim will. Other manufacturers can seem to do what you cannot, or as you post are unwilling as it is at the bottom of the pile. If Rovi lookup is the problemâŚditch them for a better lookup, but i think it goes deeper than thatâŚit was released to soon, and you do not have or as you point out unwilling to put in the resources. I now understand why my dealer does not embrace this product. I will not try and defend this product anymore on the forum, it would be duping people imo.
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@Stevesky Thank you. I will email you in the next day or two with some thoughts and suggestions.
@Gazza keep the faith! We will sort this out.
Best
David
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FWIIW my Core fits my needs perfectly and the sound quality is superb. Whatâs not to love guys?
Steve will be wishing he stayed on leaveâŚ
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Whats not to love?, plenty if you have something like a melco, sorry but the core has been well and truly left behind years ago, let alone these days
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As a Unitiserve user, my only complaint regarding classical is that there need to be just a few more editable metadata fields to cater for classical albums. Discovering that the Core is even more limited in this respect is a step too far for me, and rather baffling.
The other issue that I think needs addressing is the complete inability to cope with multi-disk albums and collections from more than one artist.
This is not differerent from what any ripping station does. The difference is that, if one rips with a Core, all metadata are stored in a Naim proprietary database that is only accessible to Naim UPnP servers: no chance to transfer the rips to any other UPnP server without losing all metadata. This is miserable interoperability in comparison with other brands and not informing users about this limitation is deceiving.
As a matter of fact, Naimâs UPnP server is neither âwell beyondâ nor even on par with well established UPnP servers like MinimServer or Asset. It doesnât support the most standard tags, let apart user-specific tags. It does not make available to the Naim app locally stored booklets. It does not even recognize standard tags for classical music like Conductor, Director, Ensemble, etc.
The software of the Core is a port of the old UnitiServe software. It is in many ways inferior to the UnitiServe software. For instance, one cannot export WAV rips to FLAC without losing metadata with the Core. Naimâs support for the Coreâs software has been from the very beginning unsteady and not particularly user friendly. Many problems and limitations of early software releases are still to be addressed, as you can easily see by checking the posts on the Core in the old and in the current Naim forum.
I do not agree. The weakness of Naimâs support for classical music has nothing to do with Roviâs approach. The reason is simply that Naimâs UPnP server does not support standard tags or user-specific tags.
Just integrate MinimServer (or any other decent UPnP server) in your system as Melco and other manufacturers have done: all limitations will disapper.
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However the entry level Melco is not really better vs the Core, for sound quality I mean.
For around 2k, the Core, with a ripper, is not so bad, neither expensive.
To have something really better, you need the middle range Melco ( 5k) and the additional ripper ( 1k).
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For me i would have the 2k melco over the 2k core every time, as even though its the entry level melco, it still performs very well, and has the great features that melco brings, you dont need a 1k melco ripper, the very cheap buffalo one that melco recommend is fine and does a great job.
I think most off the answers have been answered already in his thread, but the big gain that all melcoâs have is the disconnection from the internet they have and every naim streamer will benefit from that.
Also i guess the direct download it can also do, so no computer or memory sticks are need to get in the way off quality.
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How can you listen to the Melco files with a Naim streamer while disconnecting Melco from internet?
I am very curious.
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No internet connection is needed for any UPnP server (Melco included) to send data to a Naim (or any other) streamer. The only thing that is needed is that the server and the streamer are connected to the same network.
If they are both connected to the same network, both are connected to internet, not ?
Something is not clear to me.
I know that the Melco can be disconnected from the network if connected in usb to a dac. But in that case you can only use the screen of the Melco.
In my case the Nds is connected to the Melco switch, and another Melco switch is connected to my router ( network).
If I disconnect the ethernet cable between Melco and router, I will have no music.
Thereâs a distinction between an internal network and the internet. Streaming from a NAS will work fine even if you have no broadband/Internet providing itâs properly configured.
First time I hear that. My router is connected to the Etheregen switch. From the switch goes an Ethernet cable to the Melco. Then the Nds is connected to the Melco switch.
So I disconnect my router, I can still stream files from my Melco ?
For me itâs impossible. I think we are not talking about a same thing.