Well I think that a different turntable can exasperate some off balance recording. A system we listen to compare three pressing ( Mofi 45, 2002 Classic, '95 Classic ) did not have much going in terms of timing and dynamics. So bottom heavy slo-mo Mofi came out as the worst. it was so bad it sounded broken. I’d reckon the result would have been the same even if it was compared in a livelier system.
P8 more accurate than an LP12?
I’ve listened to both decks with the same cartridge and I did not think P8 is any more accurate than the Sondek. I did however, was mightly impressed with the vary capable Rega considering the price difference.
Cory,
Personally I can’t deal with 45s having to get up every 10 min.
I am tempted to go for the '95 Classic but then there is no guarantee. I came to swallow the reality of a vinyl making is not an exact science.
Maybe your 2002 Classic is a good one. I felt my copy is just okay from the first listen and comparing to the '95 reissue only confirmed my suspicion.
I hope to get a hold of the AP reissue and listen in my system in due course. And if it sounds better than friend’s '95, I’ll pony up for one. ( albeit there is no guarantee if it’s gonna be a quiet pressing )
I generally dislike 45 rpm for the same reason as you, but I make exceptions for albums that mean a lot to me and that I already have on 33. Examples include Passion by Peter Gabriel and Heavy Weather by Weather Report. I mostly listen to the 33s, but once in a while I’ll put on the 45s.
My 2002 KoB is appreciably better than the only other version I’ve heard, a nondescript 80s reissue (which sounds OK), so I’ve no idea what the benchmark is. My feeling is that it’s hard to justify the expense and shelf space for a single 33 rpm disc in a box. But if it’s a 45, then that will be on 2 discs and will likely sound better, and the box will earn its keep, so to speak.
Aside from that, I’m not a fan of modern reissues generally. Even the best sounding ones seem to lose some intangible quality that a good second or even third pressing retains (tape deterioration, maybe?). But there are exceptions. I have a couple of Music Matters reissues (on 33) that are probably the best sounding records I own. So maybe the forthcoming 45 rpm KoB will hold its own against even an original 6 eye? I’m keeping an open mind on this one.
I’ve a friend with a complete MM45s releases and lucky to borrow and compared it to my 33 MMs to see if they are worth the coin.
Some of the releases I preferred my 33s ( Hank Mobley’s Soul Station comes to my mind ) it seemed the 33s had more kick than the 45s and some of the tune like ‘Remember’ sounded much more upbeat and happy than the 45s. Ditto for Self Titled Hank Mobley. But then I really liked my friend’s 45 Quintet so I got myself a copy. To my dismay, tho, his earlier 45 pressing sounded better than my 45! There is no end to this vinyl neurosis.
Sample variance is just a way of life. You win a few. You lose a few.
Of course there are many, many different Sondeks and we all have our own likes and opinions I personally have owned maybe 5 or 6 different variants even more if you take into account the many upgrades done to at least half of those variants, the best one in my opinion was the earliest with the least amount of upgrades. I’m by no means knocking the LP12 it’s a fantastic deck and I’ve enjoyed all of the variants I’ve owned but they have all had a house sound which for better or worse colours the sound a bit.
The Rega I own now which I’m not saying is better just different because of the on the fly pitch control for me is at times capable of a sound closer to the record especially with the Dynavector 20x2L
(a cartridge I’ve used on several LP12’s) or the AT VM760 SLC Moving Magnet cartridges I use.
I really respect your opinion though and your experience, the fact you have tested the KOB releases on several systems makes it better than any test I can do as I just have mine to use.
I’ve been keeping my eye out for an original copy of the Classic Records release from '95 and will one day own one I’m sure. Thanks again for your opinions it’s always great to get another perspective on these things.
The 50th Anniversary used the same source as the Mofi which was Battery Studios’ Mark Wilder’s 1997 three-to-two-track mix down to analog tape produced playing back the three track tape on a pristine all tube Presto deck and using a GML custom line mixer and producing a flat transfer at 15IPS using Dolby SR onto an Ampex ATR 102.
Obviously the two mastering engineers had very different ideas on how it should sound and in my opinion Greg Calbi at Sterling did a much better job with those tapes than the Mofi engineers.
ok. back to the topic.
I know it’s a digital recording but this was the first CD I brought around for many auditions back then. I did not realise it was available in vinyl.
I dont disagree, all TT’s have differing sonic characteristics, none of which imo can really be described as accurate, it’s the nature of the beast.
My point was a different one, about some carts and or stylus profiles masking pressing defects and accordingly what else musically might also be getting masked.
My counter about Rega’s running fast was (a deliberate falsehood) meant to illustrate that is as unreliable a view as saying LP12’s are coloured. Rega say they pitch there TT’s slightly up to counter the drag from tonearm/cart and run correct speed with a record playing, so it’s wrong to say they run fast.
Its equally wrong as @Bobthebuilder stated to say LP12’s are coloured, early ones maybe arguably had a bit of a mid band bloom, but current spec (and very different variants including third party components) demonstrate that to no longer be the case.
Interestingly and conversely I recently auditioned a Dynavector XXII 2 on my Klimak Radikal (mk1) Karousel, Keel, Ekos SE1 etc. Which revealed the colouration to my ears from the XXII 2, which I didnt hear from a Krystal or DV17 DX, A modern LP12 imo is quite neutral adding nothing, taking nothing away
@Bobthebuilder
Would still be helpful for context to know which “variants” of LP12 you’ve owned (I’m not suggesting your knocking the LP12 btw nor am I taking issue and going on the defensive)
I’m also interested to understand why you’ve owned several when its upgradeability is completely retrospective and backward compatible, no need to own several unless perhaps you or a dealer has buggered them up.
Also a bit puzzling that you cite colouration as an issue but prefer earlier less upgraded models which were well known to have some “colouration” and which has been well addressed by subsequent improvements over the years.
As for a house sound, I too have owned many TT’s including Rega in a long lifetime of enjoying vinyl records, many of which could be considered as having a “house sound” it is as I opined before the nature of the beast. The modern LP12 in my view is neutral (adds nothing subtracts nothing) and tells it like it is (Linn philosophy has always been about extracting the maximum amount of information from the groove, if its present it reproduces it, if it isnt it doesnt) if you think theres something missing from the sound I would suggest it’s because your actually missing some colouration or characteristic that your favoured TT is adding to the sound.
You mention “on the fly pitch control” I wasnt aware that Rega have incorporated that feature. This surprises me, as a well designed power supply/speed control shouldn’t need such a feature, it’s usually a palliative for a design shortcoming or for DJ’s to manipulate pitch.
There is good reason for this. Joe Harley as I understand it persuaded Kevin Gray to upgrade his mastering suite with cabling from Audioquest (Joe Harley was involved with
Music Matters and CEO of Audioquest). This took place around the introduction of the 33 Series and I recall MM themselves stating that the upgraded sound of the 33 series was better than the 45.
I have a complete set of 33’s from subscription but I dont have any 45’s so cant concur
Anyone here bought Maisha, There Is a Place, on vinyl? It seems that there was an original issue with a gatefold cover but it has since been re-released with a single sleeve. Juno has both but the price differential is significant - only the later issue is on Bandcamp. I’ll probably go for the gatefold, but if anyone has experience of either pressing I would be grateful.
I have received two records over the last couple of days. Unfortunately, my pre-amp is being serviced and while I have a Cyrus integrated on loan, my LP12 has a captive lead with a DIN plug, so there will be no vinyl listening for a bit.
I have the original pressings but it has an issue on one side. I planned to get the re issue and keep the gatefold from the original but didnt get around to it. AFAIK the single sleeve is a straight repressing of the original surprised that Juno has both, I thought the original was no longer available, maybe some old stock.
Fine album though as is the Gary Bartz/Maisha album, try it if you havent already
