Not sure there is any contradiction , there are no moving parts and no obvious manual bias settingsā¦ so itās only about replacing components that seriously age. These are the reservoir electrolytic capacitors in the power supply. These typically start to noticeably deteriorate from 12 years or so onwards depending on usageā¦ which is what Naim suggested in their reply. When these noticeably deteriorate they will notably affect performance which you may well noticeā¦ which is what was suggested in the other reply.
Both replies are consistent. I am scratching my head as to why there is any confusionā¦
It isnāt as if there is an odometerā¦ there is simply a calendar and your ears.
I have not seen that please quote that from a Naim member of staff. and @Hanumike states that - no service needed until there is a notable drop off in performance, which will happen with the aging of the reservoir caps which can start to notably deteriorate from around 12 years onwards - according to another Naim response - all good.
The confusion seem to come from the communication of the local Naim distributor in Benelux. I suggest you get clarification from them - as their advice is contrary to Naim and usual practice in all electronics where performance is important to be maintained in reservoir caps.
I have just had the HT bank of caps replaced in my RF Linear Amplifier (working voltage together a couple of kV) - they were 17 years old - and so highly recommended to replace them. Here an aging capacitor might not be that audibly noticeable - but could rapidly fail and explode. Here they are unlikely to explode in Naim products unless very old - but they will start to noticeably compromise performance - its a matter of chemistry.
With reservoir caps they simply do need to be replaced after a period of time - exact time depends on usage and construct of the electrolytic capacitor.
where did you get from - I see at least 5 reservoir capacitors in the Naim DAC and possibly other smaller ones in the picture I provided in this thread to help inform punters. There does seem to be do be some questionable assertions being banded about.
At the end of the day - if you canāt hear any performance drop off - then donāt do anything - for the low voltages in Naim this is not a safety matter. For those that do notice the performance drop off - they know what to doā¦
Also in the following comment; not much to service in the nDAC.
On a second read, indeed there is no explicit comment from Naim themselves that no servicing is needed. 15 years mentioned in the thread I linked (vs 12 just above). However the exact guidelines are a bit vague, so I hope I can be allowed some slack for getting confused!
Regarding the performance drop off, not sure Iād be able to grasp something if itās gradual over the course of some years and without a reference sample to hear side-by-side. My bloody system sounds different each day anyway as the speakers are running in!
So in the end I think it would be helpful to have some clear guidance on the issue and get some peace of mind.
That is exactly where the problem lies. With all due respect @Simon-in-Suffolk I think your UK perspective makes you react a little too harsh to the other members above. It is for a reason there is a whole Servicing in Europe thread.
Thanks to @Ardbeg10y and @MaxBertola there, it is now more widely known that LASA in Italy is the European equivalent of Class A, a Naim-authorised service center. That is good news because since Brexit we can no longer use Class A.
Otherwise, by Naimās own instructions, we are always referred to our local distributor. At the customerās choice they would service the boxes themselves, or send them to Salisbury for a longer and more expensive route
Things have changed this year, no more Musicline and Latham no longer independent but part of the FocalNaim organisation, and official service apparantly now carried out in Poland and/or Slovakia.
All this to say that when the local distributor says there is no service for the nDAC at all, this means we canāt do anything as you propose.
Thanks to this thread and the other thread we can now infer that it is a good idea to send off the nDAC to LASA in Italy after 12-15 years or so. And point them to this thread and inform them we would like to have the caps at the power supply replaced. All this then within the official Naim authorisation most of us prefer due to resell value and peace of mind.
So yes I can understand the calls for more guidance from Naim officially both here and via the distributors. Please have a bit more patience here, us Europeans have to work with all of the above, sending stuff to different countries, finding information here because it is not provided to us otherwise, whereas you can just drop off your machine in Salisbury.
I hope @Richard.Dane appreciates this part of the thread as simply a kind request from concerned members to arrive at the following:
A statement from Naim HQ on what an official service entails on the nDAC and the appropriate interval for that;
That such statement is communicated to customers, dealers, distributors and authorised service centers - independents or within the organisation;
With a clear indication to us of where and how such service can be performed within the Naim ecosystem, so we can all spend our money happily.
(about the latter, please also define an appropriate service category. If the service is ājustā psu-caps the nDAC service shouldnāt be in the expensive digital band-7 probably)
It is normally just the reservoir caps, maybe the logo if bleeding + software.
Full test obviously.
12 - 15 years sounds about right.
Software revision will be displayed sequentually via the button LEDs in binary by switching on with the āDockā button pressed IIRC.
Or just connect your iPhone via USB, and the nDAC is listed under system preferences there including the firmware version, saves a lot of button-voodoo.
I donāt mean to sound patronising - so if I come across that way, I apologise; I donāt know if English is your first language - but you do appear to state things in a specific way - then deny them later.
I was commenting that you asserted āa couple of capacitorsā - that is evidently not the case - as there are at least 6 reservoir caps visible ā¦ it does get hard to follow what you are trying to actually say sometimes.
Quite. Itās up to Darran to decide what heās comfortable working on.
Also, consider that with the DAC Iād guess that thereās a good deal of ESD risk involved in working on them, which just isnāt there on the regular analogue stuff like amps and power supplies.
Apologies if my writing has been confusing. English is not my first language but I still try to communicate in a clear and fact-based way as much as possible.
Back on the topic of the reservoir caps and their servicing:
In the nDAC, I can see 5 (and thatās what I meant by a couple ). SN2 (as an example) has 7 in comparison. So coming back to my original question, why is Band 7 significantly more expensive to service compared to Band 5, where a similar amount of effort/caps is needed? I can understand that repairs in Band 7 will be more expensive than Band 5, given the complexity of electronics, but for servicing not so much.
Anyway, in the end I just want to enjoy my ND5XS2-nDAC source, so such discussions help to clarify my future course of action. Cheers to all!
Thanks - yes in English couple is used to mean formally two and in written English it usually means two. In British English that has more bearing and is often used with people, man and a woman, two women, men, children or two similar things. Three people would never be called a couple - in a casual typically spoken sense it can be used as an equivalent of a āfewā - such as a few items, ā¦ but as the quantity was the focus of the context of your sentence - a couple would have the meaning of two, otherwise you would have used an adjective like a āfewā if you were not being specific, and you wanted to emphasise a small number - which perhaps you were.
However if you were in a pub and asked casually the barman for a couple of bags of crisps - you would get two bags of crisps and not five bags of crisps.
