Why is it that it always must be either or? @litemotiv posted a good explanation on why this particular measurement is important for our application. Does that mean the best measuring device will sound best to you, me or him? Of course not. Does that then mean that this measurement is useless? Of course not.
We all listen to our equipment and (most of us?) accept that the best sounding device (according to our ears, i.e. preference) won’t necessarily measure the best, but we shouldn’t ignore the basic stuff that can easily be measured either.
Because harmonic distortion isn’t actually that objectionable to our ears (think of the love people have for tube amps). It’s other non-linear types of distortion that’s a real problem. Just because one measurement wasn’t all it was made out to be, doesn’t mean they all are.
I suspect the Toslink on the nDAC is quite well implemented. When I had nDAC/XPS some years ago I compared CD5XS as digital transport connected with Naim’s DC1 cable, to the same disc ripped into iTunes on a Mac mini and using its optical out into the nDAC. By a small but consistent margin I preferred the latter combination. Using a quality glass fibre cable (Wireworld Supernova) may have helped and no doubt an audiophile USB to S/PDIF converter would have been even better, but optical was no slouch.
Thanks, that is useful. I never really came to grips with why I found the combination Node2i into nDAC less of an upgrade than I expected, compared to the bare Node2i. Maybe it was neither the connections fault, but rather the quality of Node 2i digital output as a transport streamer? Or my expectations were not very well calibrated?! It just seemed odd in the end, that my experience with the nDAC was not in line with what quite many members of the forum reported from their use of it in their different systems. Even my dealer was a bit surprised when I returned the nDAC after demo. But in the end it found another happy home.
The appeal of the SN for me is having the integrated & DAC in one box frankly. Well, that & the NATO5.
So not having to add a power supply is a bonus.
CD-quality lossless via optical is good enough for me.
I’m not a subscriber to any service save the occasional iTunes purchase ( Hail Satin, The Deegees last bought)
On that note, I’m going to see if I can get Chromecast to work & A/B that with the Airplay2 I’m using now.
To be honest, despite the previous post I suspect a Flatcap wouldn’t be worth adding, especially given the need for an extra shelf on the rack, another power socket used, and more cable mess. Besides, even the more popular Hicap upgrade is not liked by everybody, so one should never assume that more = better without listening for yourself.
(If a product measures objectively poorly, then that tells us something about it’s limitations. All adequately engineered powercords measure within spec however, so it doesn’t tell us anything in that regard).
I’m completely in support of sacrificing measurements when it sounds as good as Naim does. It’s about enjoying what you hear and relaxing when you listen. Not measurements. They are a tool, but only that. Especially from a consumer point of view.
Interview with Steve sells. SS: As an engineer it’s really hard to sacrifice specs, but we do it all the time. Generally, we’ll design on the bench from experience. We know what sounded good in the past so we’ll try those things again. Then when we’ve got a couple of different prototypes we’ll engineer those till they measure well. Then we go to the listening room and we play around with components to fine-tune the sound. Invariably, when you go back and measure things they’ve got worse.
You may think you’re smart by being the first to make that remark, but you’re neither. It’s just another strawman argument like so many we see around here.
Here’s the gist: i’ve never claimed that the Tellurium cable is objectively better or that you should only buy products based on measurements, so you shouldn’t suggest that i did.
This is IMO what it’s all about. Measurements do matter, but aren’t the end-all. I.e. Naim first engineer it to measure really well (good baseline), and then fine tune the sound even if at expense of measurements. You’d think if Naim does it this way at least the people on this particular forum could accept that.
I’ve said it before that I don’t understand the people who will just wilfully ignore bad measurements. Which is not the same as choosing the one with “worse” measurements between well measuring designs based on how they sound.
@Neilb1906
Have you had a look at pd-cf PSU upgrade for the Node? I’m about to pull the trigger and as always prefer to hear anothers opinion if you’d care to have a gander.
Indeed, measurements are there to establish a baseline, that’s all. Because sometimes we cannot immediately tell what is right or wrong with a new product. I encourage everyone to read the Devialet Expert 200 review on either Stereophile or ASR as an example, a $10K costing amplifier. Measurements show that in high frequencies there is an increasing phase shift between channels that causes weird but subtle ringing effects.
You may not hear it at first and think “great amplifier”, but you could end up with a seriously compromised device in the long run. Measurements make that visible for us, before we come to the same conclusion ourselves after listening for extended periods, but then it might be too late.
There’s the biggest performance limitation in your chain IMO. The AE doesn’t have a proper onboard clock, resulting in low precision digital output. A high quality DAC can reject some of the jitter, but even then it will substantially impact on sound quality. My advice would be to improve the streaming first.
You are constantly touting the straw man logical fallacy. Failing to realise that your comments on measurements are kinda in the realm of the Nirvana fallacy. “If it ain’t perfect it’s no good”. For Christ sake all someone said is that the Node 2i is a good little streamer for the price.
He said it’s “the best all in one streamer at its price point”, and i only pointed out that its measurements show that its high noise floor prevent it from reaching CD-quality playback. Which is obviously a serious shortcoming, don’t you agree?
He then replied with a “Hurrr-durr measurements” comment like people often do, and that then triggered the rest of the discussion. My initial comment was just factual and informative, and people could have left it at that without trying to outwit or strawman me.
It was just an opinion. Not just based on performance but possibly form, function and price. I am sure you are correct but I’m sure there are down sides to each and every device at that price point also.
He wasn’t saying it was “technically” the best.
Maybe you could have left it at his original comment.
