4.8 update and sound quality

:grinning: :grinning: :grinning: :grinning: :grinning:

Indeed, check this link if you want proof that your eyes are deceiving you all the time:

Warning: flashing colors, don’t click if you are photosensitive.

[Edit] or the simple version:

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I realise that there are optical illusions and I’m sure there are probably audio ones too but naim haven’t set out to trick us like these clever illusions do.

When you go to buy hifi you only have your ears and experience to judge with. The same with a new lead or firmware update. If you can’t trust yourself to listen without bias then what chance do you have?

I really wish it were different, but it is unfortunately a fact of nature that almost no one can listen without bias… most if not all professionals are just as affected by it, but in their work environments they take measures to minimize it’s influence as much as possible.

Maybe not totally but I’m sure you get what I mean

I do yes, but for the reasons mentioned i don’t think it’s a bad thing when people are aware that there may be expectation (or other) bias in play when they evaluate something. At least i feel it’s better than overestimating your own capabilities and expecting yourself to be immune from it. :wink:

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Oh my. I do think people understand there is expectation bias but I also think we are all grown ups here. We are able to make informed decisions and really don’t need to be protected from our selves.

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@Simon-in-Suffolk , October 2020:


There is no machine learning in the normal sense in the Naim streamers. But yes the firmware code is optimised for best sound performance/balance as determined by Naim before it is released.
Usually beta releases are not optimised, and so there can be an audible shift between beta and release firmware with the latter being optimised.
The code execution sound performance optimisation is undertaken for each device, as the electronics and digital underlay varies between models.

As far as noise, when digital logic gates are operated, such as in buffers, CPU, shift registers and memory small amounts of electro magnetic noise pulses are created. This is natural physics due to the rapid change of states. When aggregated up over a digital system this creates a sequence of noise bursts, almost like a rhythm, as if you were shaking out a rhythm with some maracas. (But extremely quickly). By undertaking certain machine operations at precise times, the induced rhythm of noise, or shaped noise can be optimised to interact with the audio and clocking subsystems in a way that modulates any induced artefacts to act, as as I have been told by Naim, to almost act as tone controls.”

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The problem FR is that while that is obviously good background information from S-i-S, the electric noise is more or less a constant factor in streamers. So while it’s great that Naim try to smooth any issues before releasing a final firmware version, this process is intended to not degrade the sound quality unnecessarily between releases, it isn’t intended to radically improve the sound quality since the devices are already supposed to operate at or close to 100% of their potential.

So it’s somewhat of a strange situation that people report pretty significant changes each time a new firmware is released, and it’s difficult to imagine how that would be technically possible.

All this interesting stuff ought to be in a separate thread because it’s muddling the purpose of the thread about 4.8 and it’s going to get cut short the moment Richard notices it.

Perhaps we could ask @Richard.Dane to edit some of the foregoing into a thread called something like “Sound Quality and why we hear things differently.”

Best

David

I agree. Please could we keep this thread to reports on few 4.8. Thanks. If you want to discuss other things or expand the discussion then please start a new thread. Thanks.

From my experience, the 4.8 update is subtle but very much appreciated in terms of refinement. Thank you Naim for another freebie :relaxed:

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What you are describing very much correlates with my experience in terms of appreciating the new breath of life that has been breathed into these legacy streamers. It is as though we have all been given a free upgrade by the much revered Roy George who has finely tuned certain aspects to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts: an astonishing achievement in terms of mastery without compromise :relaxed:

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Quick question - I am sitting down to upgrade the firmware on my ND5XS but the screen has stopped working so any idea how I find out which firmware version I am on - can I see it on the Naim App somewhere? It’s the Streamer Version I guess…$
Thanks

In the App, press on the Cog and then About :relaxed:

perfect - thanks mine says 4.7 which is the previous version so all good to upgrade
cheers

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Yes, in settings then information. Something like that.
Then, if you see 4.8, you can do a factory reset. Maybe the screen will return. :crossed_fingers:

I know you are joking, but other readers may not. If the green screen is dead on an old uniti or streamer, a factory reset will never bring the screen back to working.

But it may make it impossible to use the device because you can’t use the screen, for example to set up WiFi. Also there are many other settings that can only be set via the remote and without a screen it’s very difficult to do.

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No David, I was not joking. Just bad understood apparently. I thought the OP did the 4.8 update and after that the screen was not working.
So I suggested to do a factory reset.
But of course you are right, if the screen is out of order, a factory reset will not cure that.
Sorry @Sten for the confusion.

I suspect the same people saying they can’t hear any difference are they same poor folk who don’t see Father Xmas anymore! You got to feel for them? They have no choice as to go round saying we’re all mad and you can see why sometimes :joy: Bless em!