Banana plugs

I need to reterminate my speaker cables at the amp end, 10mm2. I’m thinking of WBT plugs, any other suggestions, the Naim plugs won’t take a 10mm wire. That’s 8 gauge in US size

I’ve been very happy with the Deltron plugs that several people on here recommended to me a few weeks back. Good choice, nice and cheap and sound fine. Wouldn’t like to swear they’d definitely take 10mm2 but websites will tell you.

Mark

Hi Mark. I got a great deal on the WBT Nextgen 0610 cu… it’ll take up to 8 gauge. But thank you for the suggestion.

Or, on the British system, 4/0 gauge :slight_smile:

Just in case any British readers are confused :wink:

I’m curious, what are these fat cables you’re using?

I’m using DH labs Q10, it’s 4 conductors per leg two 12 gauge and two 14 gauge. Could be used as an internal biwire, I don’t. Also because of Naim’s choice of speaker connections I also have a single 16 gauge for my REL sub. So all three cable per Chanel are about 9 gauge. Of course if Naim would use normal binding posts (WBT’s could be great) I wouldn’t have to deal with this silliness. I wonder if anyone has replaced the originals with normal binding posts?

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If you are using the high level connection to the REL sub, the cables for this should be connected to the backs of the speakers not to the amplifier.

Not to be rude but you are completely wrong. Please see link to REL’s web site clearly explaining the connection method.

https://relsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115004486467-Standard-Connection-Class-A-B-A-B-amps-

If you have a Naim amp they recommend you connect REL sub to back of speaker not the amp.
I went for REL demo at Naim dealer and they connected to the back of the speaker not the amp.
I’d advise you to contact Naim.

It’s not a matter for REL to decide, it’s a matter for Naim; as, depending on the cable used and the type of Naim power amp you could actually damage the power amp by connecting an inappropriate load to it.

There was an FAQ on the old forum site but this doesn’t seem to have made it onto this forum’s FAQs; however this gives the electrical spec of the load required for Naim amps…


You will need to ensure that the combined load of the two cables still meets these specifications, otherwise you’ll degrade the performance of the Naim amp, and could possibly damage it.

Connecting to the back of the speakers will ensure a safe load for the amp.

If using a high level sub connection with s Naim power amp it’s always safest connecting from the speaker end. It should sound best that way too. Plenty of reports to confirm same, even with later NAIT 5i etc…

We’ve been here before! Although I had my N-Sub connected at the speaker end, my dealer, who is a long established Naim and Rel dealer, insists that it is fine to connect at the amp end, and says that this is the way he always does installations for his customers.

Rel high level input impedance is 150,000 k ohms. It presents NO load to the amp. Empirically I’ve been running my SN2 continuously for a week it sounds great and barely gets warm.

It would be worth checking the inductance and capacitance of your speaker cables, as getting something suitable can make a big difference with Naim amps, depending on which amp you have. The plugs Naim supply with their amps are designed to be a match for the sockets in the amp, and for Naim speaker cable, all of which work very well together, so I don’t think there’s any silliness going on here, just an unfortunate mismatch with the cables you already have.

You are misunderstanding what is meant by amp load; we are talking amp output stage inductance load, this is applied by the speaker cable & needs to be around 3.5uH minimum. Adding a parallel cable, as will be the case with both main speaker & sub speaker connected to the amp, will reduce the inductance. Whereas having a cable from main speaker to sub they will be in series & increase inductance. This the safer option & why Naim recommend it.

Complex constructions of speaker cables (particularly where there isn’t a significant amount of insulating ‘web’ separating the + and - conductors) can greatly increase the capacitance between the conductors; and, if two cables are connected to the amplifier, their capacitances are additive. Even simple cable construction can still present too much capacitance if the conductors are fairly close together without a ‘web’ separating them.

This increased capacitance can result in transient stress conditions in various parts of a power amp - not only in the output stage. These transient stresses can cause damage that doesn’t appear as external heat, but can still cause premature failure.

With a Supernait there is a lot more tolerance before damage occurs, but you’ll still get degradation of sound quality compared to a more appropriate speaker cable configuration.

There is ZERO Sound Quality difference in the main speakers, with the sub hooked up or not, obviously there is way better bass and sound staging etc. So I tried this: Sub Turned off, level and crossover at zero, also Speakon connector disconnected. Also consider this: The REL Sub comes with a 25-30 foot cable for High Level connection. It is a Single three conductor wire with about 10inches pre-terminated at the amp end, designed to be hooked up to the amp.

Imagine that you are the REL Sales Rep, you visit a store the only easy way hook up the sub for demo is with a cable broken into it’s three single conductors so that it can reach say the 8-10 feet that the speakers are placed. That’s so doing a demo one can hook the sub up to ANY speakers, and not have to fiddle around with trying to hook it up to the Lame Naim inverted banana holes. Also consider that maybe Naim’s choice of these inverted non binding posts is that they don’t want some idiot to f’up their amp because they can’t figure out how to properly hook the REL up to their amp…or even hook up normal wire. so they use these connectors and push their wire to make more $$$

And interestingly enough the Statement Power Amp uses Normal abet very high quality Five Way Binding Posts. Don’t drink to much of the Kool Aid Kids :slight_smile:

Let the fires of the Naimites crisp my pagan beliefs HAHAHAHAH ( mad mans laugh )

In the UK banana plugs and sockets are pretty universal, certainly not unique to Naim, and it’s a simple matter to have plugs soldered onto the vast majority of speaker cables, so this is not some weird cranky way of doing things, it works very well, just differently to what you may be used to.
As for Statement, I’ve no idea what you mean by 5-way binding posts, but they are designed to accept standard 4mm bananas or spades, which is not an uncommon thing.
REL used to make a version of their Speakon cable suited to Naim systems, where the conductors were split to allow connection to the speakers. Other cable suppliers can make them up easily enough too.

Forget capacitance, yes its important in that with Naim amps we do not need it to be excessive. The important load factor is inductance - see my previous post. The purpose of this inductance load together with the amps internal zobel circuit is to suppress the destabilising effects of capacitive reactance.

@Mike-B, don’t forget that a speaker cable is effectively a transmission line, it’s the combination of inductance and capacitance and their and distribution along the cable that is significant, not just one or the other.

@Rick, you may not be able to hear the sound difference with your equipment, if you don’t, then it’s no problem to you. We’re just trying to help you get the best sound quality possible from your system. Turning the sub off, playing with its controls or even disconnecting it from its end of the cable does nothing useful in terms of testing the effect of the load on the amplifier.

That the REL sub salesman finds it difficult to wire up the high level connection in the configuration that is best for the power-amp has no bearing on the fact that wiring to the speakers rather than the amp is better for the power amp. (Incidentally I have designed an audio amplifier, so yes I do know about such things form the view of the amplifier.)