Bi-amping with Supernait 2 plus Hi-CAP PSU and NAP250 DR

The voice of wisdom and inherited truth said so…

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With the due respect, you’re wrong, like many others who don’t get to see outside the Naim universe. It is more logical, and simpler, to start from speakers suitable for the location and room modes, than from a certain electronics. In the first case, it may be difficult to find the right electronics; in the second the eternal pilgrimage of electronics and speakers is almost guaranteed, as evidenced by the forum in much cases. In addition, this mantra of many forum members who have barely known other things outside Naim is paradoxal, when, in fact, are they the ones unable to give up, and inevitably to go climbling by, Naim electronics, even at the expense of continually go swapping speakers and, in some cases, even the rooms and the houses.

In my case, the speakers are perfect for the room, the SN3 perfect for the speakers in terms of SQ, but somewhat limited in power given the room very large dimensions; nothing that cannot be solved with some time and in the most economically efficient way possible.

But well, opinions for all tastes, particularly in this ineffable world of HIFI.

Greetings.

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This is correct off course, provided it involves a balanced and affordable system.

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Of course, and that’s the goal, and hence the difficulty of the journey, trying to secure the steps to make them final.

Interesting thread. Makes complete sense that matching the speakers to the size/shape of the room is very important. Looking at the K6 specs, the recommended range is 10W to 250W so you would imagine that for a large room at least half that rating would be a good starting point but could need more if you enjoy playing loud. Looks like in the Naim range that takes you to 500 and above … or some of the high end integrated available outside Naim.

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Yes, but there will always be time and room ahead for that path… For now, after the shock of the overcurrent failure, the SN3 is settling beautifully and, although, of course, always, always, you could reach a higher SQ, the current level is already surprisingly good with the integrated and the NDX2. The integrated already covers more than half the recommended power for the speakers (130W in 4 Ohms), and, in fact, if everything is still on the same line, I have the impression that this could well be the end of the journey for me with this system; otherwise, I do not rule out the addition of the NAP 250 DR in biamp mode.

Hi NC, are you sure that the recommended range is in 4 Ohms and not 8?

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Yes, sure: 10W-250W in 4 Ohms (that’s the speakers rated impedance); always with good current flow, as Naim has it. It should be considered that several reviews have been made of SN3 (also SN2) with B&W 803 D3, and they both have always been sized in terms of SQ, and even in terms of power in standard medium rooms; to the point that reviewers have come to praise them as optimal solutions versus the separate ones. Can you have more…? Yes. Need more…? Honestly I just doubt it.

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Interesting, such a large speaker and its rating is below the specs of most of the large power amps outside Naim. You learn something every day!

Well @newcomer, I agree completely with your approach in getting suitable high quality speakers as the end game.
I too have the NDX2 and SN3 but with Kudos Titan 606 speakers which cost slightly more than the source and amp combined (all brand new not pre-owned) - heresy for many of the source first devotees (myself also, usually) but acceptable because the speakers are of a very good quality.

The speakers have to fit in with the surroundings, work with the room and are the actual voice of the system. The SN3 is a very capable amp and for my particular circumstance/journey, perfectly acceptable. To ‘move up’ the chain would involve a lot of money so should I find myself needing more for whatever reason then I would look to another brand, probably an expensive integrated.

Similarly for the source, if I became dissatisfied I would seek a voice change by perhaps adding a separate Non-Naim DAC. I really do like Naim but have zero desire for multiple boxes and power supplies.

The area where I differ from you is in the size of listening space - mine is much smaller so the SN3 with my 84dB sensitivity speakers is more than adequate for very loud SPL in my environment.

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Yes, but their 4 Ohms make them very sensitive to the necessary current flow (headroom availability related), and their high quality makes them very sensitive to the quality of that current flow; both things really well resolved by Naim.

It’s exactly the same point to me; with the exception of the source, since, in its normal operation, and possible faults aside, I find the NDX2 sublime. I was also assessing the external DAC pathway and my previous streamer as mere transport, with the Chord Electronics Hugo TT2 DAC, but it deterred me quite a bit its sensitivity to RFI, and also its strange ergonomics of use.

Yes indeed, I think the NDX2 is excellent and can’t imagine needing/ wanting more.

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I’m not wrong, it’s just that you don’t agree with me!

The fact that you are on your 3rd amplifier with these speakers and are now contemplating a 4th configuration by bi-amping in an attempt to make the system work satisfactorily makes me think that I may be on to something!

If you have the inclination go and ask your dealer to demonstrate a (very) high end Naim system with modest speakers, something like Russell K’s. Listen to the music and not the sound, you may be surprised and convinced of the approach that members on here are suggesting. There are people on here with top end sources and amplifiers running some quite modest speakers with excellent results. These are the people who are content with their systems and post in the music room.

In the old days dealers would routinely do such demos, using a fully loaded LP12 with a 32.5/HiCap/2 X 135 into something like Kans or Royds. Systems like this really immersed you into the music in a way that a top flight set of speakers connected to an unsuitable system cannot compare with.

I know your room suggests larger speakers so the answer is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.

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It’s not the 3rd amplifier but the 2nd: the original Exposure combo I had with the previous floostanders got along very poorly with the K6; then the SN2, which for my ears was perfect, but failed; and now, finally, the SN3 in place of the failed SN2, which, as I point out, is perfect, and more and more as it settles, even it may be final one, without the need for biamp or any other consideration, we will see when it finally reaches its maximum potential…

On the other hand, it is what love has, just as I did not need to try with other people after meeting my dear wife first time, from the first moment we interacted I knew she would be the mother of my children; the same way with the K6. Are there better ones…? Sure, but I don’t feel the need to discover them because they already offer me everything I need and cover all my expectations.

But, well, I’ll accept octopus as a pet, and may be it would be somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.

Cheers.

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I’m a little curious in adding a NAP250 or NAP300 to my SN2 in a long term move to a higher end Naim rig later on buying a pre-amp etc. The NAP300 I see has a fan on the back. Does this one make any noise? I’m allergic to any additional noise so it needs to be dead silent if running.

Gosh – you compare your speakers to your marriage!? That is a rather intimate relationship with a wooden box on spikes with a few drivers…

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No need to invest in a nanny. The Proac K6 will take care of the children. :rofl:

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:joy::joy::joy::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Yes, I promise that the K6 reflex ports, although downfiring, remain intact… :sweat_smile::sweat_smile::rofl::rofl::joy::joy::joy::joy:

But certainly, seen like this, you’re absolutely right, and maybe it’s not the luckiest metaphor. Finally, I was just trying to reflect that incial gut feeling we often have in life telling us that something will work very well in the long run. Also, the question, more than “Are there better ones…?”, would be “Are they perfect…?” The answer is, obviously not; although there is really nothing perfect in this world, nor in the Universe, which points even to the emptiness of the very concept of perfection.

Thank you, I laughed a lot.

Cheers.

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UPDATE…

I’m sorry to write to report that the SN3 integrated follow in troubles…, around 100 hours playing currently…

I’m relaxed this afternoon, trying to listen to music … I swap the selection to an EDM playlist and…, impossible with the integrated…: as soon as I turn the potentiometer around 10 o’clock the thermal protection activates, CD button selection flashing and amplifier dropps out… Room temperature in 15 ºC, and sonometer in hand from the listening point, at 3 meters, just without reaching 80dB; three times in the last half hour…, I don’t even want to think in the matter as winter goes by… The truth is that the SN2 had a lot more claw, but also short… Very disappointed with Naim integrateds, good, yes, and good SQ, but very unstable and very short power in this configuration.

The truth is that I cannot accept that, with a this level system, I must “conform” with listening to “background music”; and I see no way in adding the NAP 250 DR, it do not deserve any confidence to me…

I think that’s how far I’ve come.

I have written to my dealer to inform him and to propose him to return it back and change to ATC SIA2-150, which also worked very well in the configuration and without any problem of lack of power; a good SQ too, but different. I don’t want to go down the separate and climbing path, and I think it would solve little given the room dimensines and volume.

I would have preferred things not to be like this, but Naim amplification does not result in this configuration; very happy with the NDX2.

We’ll see…

Greetings to the forum.