Have you tested this for an extended period in your own home?
I do a lot of blind tastings in my work
I think I am old enough and wise enough in my Naim journey to know if an upgrade is worth it either blind or not to be honest having spent about 8 hours this week testing various HiFI from Keel, TA Phoenix, Linn Akrutate, Radikal, Stiletto and now ChordARRAY
It was a joke, look at the discussion…
Ditto!
Should we apply this to everything? I sure as hell didn’t do this for any of my integrated/pre/power combo’s - didn’t need to. Maybe, just maybe, the differences are clear enough, sometimes, lol…
It is a well researched psychological effect that we are subconsciously biased when we know or expect what we are listening to, with a statistical significant influence. It’s called the placebo effect and it affects us in all areas of our lives, so when testing out something new it is a good idea to test blindly where possible, just to make sure we are not fooling ourselves.
You might also be interested to re-read the audio myths thread in that regard, it touches on this subject too:
Ofcourse everyone is free to forego blind testing and only rely on their own ability to discern between bias and objective observation. This will greatly increase the odds of fooling oneself and people may end up spending a lot of money on things that don’t really do anything tangible. It’s their money so that’s fine with me too.
In the case of something technically dubious / suspicious such as the Chord GroundARAY the chances of that happening seem really slim.
Dubious technical claims aside, if someone tries these out and they think their system sounds better for it then who can argue with that.
Hi-Fi is a strange game.
Exactly . And if the differences are very very subtle, then there’s no real difference, so not worth changing.
If the differences are very obvious, no need a blind test.
I was just expressing a lighthearted thought that whispered at me (maybe should’ve used a smiley…)
Just struck me that upgrading black boxes etc doesn’t seem to meet the same calls for blind tests…we all know (more or less) that box A is better than box C…but a cable or other item seems to need such a test to validate it, or not. I don’t recall anybody blind testing a Fraim, but maybe some have?
But I stress - a lighthearted little mouse squeaked in my ear, is all!
In my experience many SQ changes fall into the camp of either being different (not necessarily better or worse) or a minor improvement, which leads you to start questioning whether it’s real or worth the expense. A blind test often proves that the minor SQ improvement I think I can hear is a trick of the mind
A bit of work to do on his cable dressing though
That is an “after” shot dontcha know!
We agree to disagree
So, one on the 252 and one on the NDX2 would be the way to go then?
I think, if you are sufficiently confident in your own abilities to discern what’s what, that a blind test is unnecessary. Of course, it’s easy to think that a change, especially if it’s expensive, and especially if everyone else says it’s an improvement, is in fact an improvement.
A few years ago we were beta testing 272 firmware. Naim supplied two versions and asked us to decide which we preferred. So I tested one, and it was better than the previous release version. Then I tested the other. Was it better? Was it worse? So I swapped back. Couldn’t tell the difference. So, feeling a bit useless, I reported that they sounded the same. Naim then responded that in fact they were the same, and that it was only the other streamers that had two versions. So it’s perfectly possible to overcome expectation bias and make a decision. It can be hard though, but I don’t think blind testing is the only way. Having low expectations is often best, almost a nul hypothesis that nothing will improve. The ‘must do blind testing’ mantra is often put forward as an answer by those with closed minds. It’s good to approach these things with the view that anything is possible, even if we don’t understand it.
How many people in the group did hear a difference between the two?
A blind test only provides you with more certainty that what you think you hear is actually there and not imagined, it doesn’t limit you in any way. It has nothing to do with a closed mind, and everything to do with taking a potentially biased mind out of the equation.
Basically, if I like what I hear, I like what I hear. All the changes I kept over the years have had obvious benefits, and I can’t be bothered with blind testing drama. Most stuff has gone in once and stayed, as it has obviously improved the sound presentation.
If another poster reports an improvement without blind testing, I’m happy to take their experience at face value.
It doesn’t take much really, a good dealer could actually propose a blind test in most circumstances.
The only difference being:
Bad / current scenario
- “Ok we’re plugging in the device now! Let me know what you think!”
Better scenario
- “Sit down and relax and just listen to the music, i will either attach or remove the device and then ask you what you think, so we can test what the effect is”
It’s really simple, and will help to do a much less biased listening test.