Ethernet Switch and Cables Mania

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5677

There are attempts at times to rationalize-away the aspects people do not want to believe possible that are shown to be relevant and very important. Belief is fine but can get you in trouble with arguments so no point in discussing beliefs or rationalizing to ‘science’ which is really just selectively used as a crutch for a belief.

I belived, once, ‘bits were bits’, ‘all cables were the same if they met the spec’, ‘all switches just switched bits’…and more.
I found none of that is true with respect to HiFi at the high-end of performance present day - although it is also all ‘true’ in its own context.
Some of this is possibly the top-end is now more available more widely and has also improved to more revealing - my general opinion - or a combination of other things.

In any case I seem to be a rare person that can adapt to experience and not scream at people to not offend my beliefs when they are found wanting.
I like learning and experiencing new things and then contemplating them as to what it is all about - the joy of being human IMO.

But it is also interesting observing the psychology of it all as people do like a firm foundation to their life and I have observed people here ‘in the flesh in-person’ at my house become scared and fearful with panic when I demonstrate the ‘impossible’ - to the extent now I don’t do it without providing a plausible ‘legitimate’ reason which although I can determine it can’t be that at all serves to make people not leap to the most primitive mental tools to protect themselves.

All very interesting. I don’t think we can stop incredulity and I’d not want to personally - it is all ok and good IMO - healthy even.

DB.

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5678

No, this thread appears not just to be about tinkering and experimenting with stuff, it’s got personal and not constructive. That’s my point.

5679

Hey , its costing me money i pick up an AQ Vodka on Tuesday…Its catching with no vaccination available.

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5680

There is a vaccination available.

Turn of all malware protection on your computer, and go looking at dodgy websites whilst doing online banking. Some fraudster will soon drain all the money from you bank account, thus stopping the spending on superfluous, excessively expensive Ethernet patch cords.

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5681

Ho ho thats a tough one…might try another cable before trying that suggestion

5682

You’ll have Peder’s inquisition demanding the evidence of >19 experienced listeners that has justified you making that remark. :sunglasses:

Anf FR demanding verified proof that you actually own the equipment that you happen to mention in any post. :sunglasses:

Cheers
Don

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5683

The mania continues. I just got an email that my Designacables Catsnake with Belden flexible cables have been shipped. Got them with Red, Green, Blue and Yellow boots so I can tell them apart. The long cable has black boots. Plan to replace the L com Cat 5e cables and compare to the BJC 6a’s. All thru the Cisco/ER Cascade, which is sounding mighty fine.

I have been talked out of the Sonore OpticalModule and Fiber Optic Cable by Alex for the moment. If I run out of tweaks and get bored, I might pursue that at a future time. Also waiting for Peder and DB to post their findings on the SQ of 2 ER’s in cascade. So not ready for the vaccination yet.

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5684

This thread at times seems more about propping up the boutique cable industry than any real tinkering. :grinning:

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5685

You mentioned the B word! Take cover!

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5686

I guess where I am coming from in my earlier comments is that it would be helpful to this debate (and learning) if some individuals on both sides of the argument could show a little more tolerance of opposing views. When it gets a little heated, some will withdraw from either experimentation, or from feeding back their experiences, both of which are counter-productive to learning. This is only natural.

I suppose a minority might actually enjoy the spectacle of verciferous argument and name-calling, which is why occasionally a thread like this can benefit from an injection of humour to calm things down. I certainly would not want to see this thread pulled, or worse, end up in the wilderness of the dreaded ‘Padded Cell’.

This is possibly the longest thread I have ever followed, which tells me there in great interest in it, for what ever reason folk are posting on here. I certainly ‘believe’ I have benefitted from enhanced SQ from trying just a few if the ideas explored here, which I may add, cost me very little money in the context of the value of my system.

So I would just like to see this thread continue, which it will if we take a deep breath, keep calm and show some appreciation of opposing views. I have seen cable threads on here pulled by our moderator (quite rightly) in the past because comments became too personal and insulting, or things got just too weird and moved to….you know where.

You don’t have to buy an EtherRegen switch or a AQ Diamond streaming cable to get a return from this thread. I spent the princely sum of £120 on a couple of outdated switches and was surprised by how much they enhanced my enjoyment of listening to music. But then again, I am one of those loonies who believe bits ain’t just bits, and I am an engineer by trade, so even weirder for me!

So bring on experimentation, feed-back of findings and the joy of getting more out of our music for bu**er all investment. Or simply a giggle at those nutters like me.

What’s not to like?

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5687

But they do help! :smiley:
Well in my case I rough-it with ER and Vodka in specific sections; two Vodkas in my system and one ER switch. The ER seems to ‘like’ or at least get on very well with very cheap Ethernet cables connecting to it either side as I previously reported - that has not changed.
For other sections of my Ethernet loom the Vodka is very worthwhile, but the ER does not seem to like higher screen to conductor capacitance cables but does like Cat6.

The Optical test is still on hiatus - awaiting delivery mid-week of a Cisco certified Optical Module for my 2960 switch, as attempts to get it working with non-Cisco branded ones so far got nowhere.

But results are so good at present with my present set-up that long music sessions where I hear things I’ve never heard before on old favorites means it is not a big deal and can wait.

The ER seems to allow a smooth clarity allowing the note structure to emerge and weave itself without covering other musical instrument contributions happening at the same time - more going on all in context of the whole is what I hear just now.

They do need three weeks to run-in and some care in cable-selections to work well as I describe, but these Cables are less than a tenth the cost of the ER itself.

DB.

5688

:small_blue_diamond:@NigelB,…Excellent written…:+1:.

Now you have last night started a SUCCA-group in the thread :smile:,.and now this excellent you write.

:balloon:You’ve definitely qualified to be my OP-partner,.now you’re officially appointed to it :grin:.

There have been many “oscillations” in this long,.soon 5500 posts-thread…
• Some have repeatedly wanted to close the thread.
• Some have been “trolling” in the thread.
• Some have “mocked” these cables.
• Some have ‘mocked’ testing-advice.
• Some have “mocked” rubber-feet,.or other things during your Cisco.
• Some have not wanted to respect OP’s wishes,.for a better mood in the thread.
• Some people think we should just listen to music,.and stop optimizing our systems.
• Some think that measurement-results are the most important.
• Some think you should absolutely not listen to ‘self-proclaimed experts’.
• Some have “mocked” those,.who hear the difference between different powercables in their Cisco.
• Some here think,.that they,who bought expensive switches,they have those as pen-s-extenders.
• Some here think,.that those of us who engage in this topic,may need to go on psychoanalysis.
• Some here think,.we should just listen to what the science says.
• Some have “mocked” dual-Cisco (switches).
Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc…

BUT,…We Are Still Here…!!!

Unfortunately,.our Swedish friend Gunnar,who lives in France,.chose to leave the forum.
This depending on what happened in the thread (see above).
:white_medium_small_square:Something we should all think about…!!!

It was sad,.that such a nice forum-friend left the forum.
But I got Gunnar’s email-address before he left the forum :+1:t2:.
So I will find out,.how it goes with Gunnars new Vertere RedLine powercables to his switches.

:small_orange_diamond:But despite all this,.to be a “Cable-thread” on the Internet,it has still worked very well.
My Purpose With This Thread,.which has also occurred…

• Many,many have gotten better soundquality in their music-systems,.because of this thread.
But also…

• @Darkebear is the man behind the discovery,that dual-switches sound better.

• Some have become more familier (I hope that’s the right word),.Michaelb and MidnightRambler,to name a few.

This above,.and much,much more positive things,have happened in this long thread.

:black_small_square:And the most important thing,.at least for me,and that’s why I’m writing here.
All those who read the forum,.and are not members.
Can I/we give them the opportunity to get better soundquality,.by sharing our/my knowledge.

Yes then we contribute to that this hobby being able to continue,.and not disappear.
And it also helps to ensure that the hifi-industry can continue to develop.

Look at this picture below,.we may not be there yet in this thread :sunglasses:.
But we can try to move in that direction.

79292863_2676103885802303_7557650558299930624_n
79292863_2676103885802303_7557650558299930624_n750×730 128 KB

/Peder🙂

5689

And more of significance:

  • Some think Tune-Dem is the only way to decide which of 2 different things is better.
  • Some think long term listening is needed to decide what sounds better.
  • Some think they are immune to psychological effects like autosuggestion.
  • Some think that blind testing is the best way to be sure that a difference is real.
  • Some think that if only other people would just listen properly those other people inevitably will hear the same differences that they believe they hear.
  • some believe that differences they perceive over time are due to cables burning in
  • Some consider that cables cannot burn in, but because it is a fact that the human ear doesn’t always hear exactly the same perceived differences are most likely due to physiological hearing differences, otherwise likely due to the inaccuracy of memory of sound.
  • Some believe that the susceptibility of electronics to the effect of ethernet cables can vary according to the electronics.
  • Some (many?) believe that they are right and others are wrong!
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5690

As I believe no one on here is guilty of telling downright lies, or wilful deception, then everyone is justified in their views. Whether or not an individual’s honestly held view is an accurate representation of reality is another question. But who is to judge what reality actually is when it comes to the subjective assessment of SQ? If someone has an honestly held view, then that is the reality for that individual and who are we to question it. It is up to that individual to scrutinise their opinions and possibly change their minds, mentioning no names of course.

Blimey, that is a bit deep for so late at night.

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5691

Okay, the pre-loved Chord Signature ARRAY is happily plugged into the NDX2. Nothing has blown up and evaluation is in hand.

In other news, there was a pre-loved Powerline too. So that’s on the Nova. Darn, that was good.

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5692

I KNOW I’m right!

…And I also know that’s not just ASPD!

5693

I think it’s important to repeat here that when considering subjective listening results, there’s no “right” or “wrong” and all posted here is just each member’s opinion. Your opinion may well agree with others, even an entire group of others, but that doesn’t make it any more absolute in whether it’s right or wrong for somebody else. Other than that, carry on…

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5694

They don’t need any encouragement…

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5695

Hi there!

Sorry for the radio silence. I’m even more pleased with them now that they’ve burned in. The burn-in is a slow steady process after the first 4 days, rather than a rollercoaster, though like the Belden Cat5e from DeisgnaCable they go through a bit of a “mush” phase around day 3-4.

Overall, they have a broad, deep and very out-of-the-speaker soundstage which, however, never loses its coherence. Timing and PRaT in general are very good. Instrumental tone is also excellent, but where these cables really excel is on instrumental and vocal texture (I’ve heard nothing to equal never mind better them from Blue Jeans, Supra, Wireworld and Audioquest through to Sablon).

Listen to something like Parick Noland’s Immersions on the Naim Label album Passage to Thought, and the double bass, symbol, drum and piano textures really come to life in a way that brings the whole composition greater sense and impact. The instrumental interplay and games with timing and texture on Ted Sirota’s Geronimo’s Free from Propaganda, also on the Naim label, really come alive in a similar way.

And don’t get me started on classical… :innocent: especially cello, piano and mezzo soprano. The rendering of piano bass is exceptional, managing to combine both the percussive and textural qualities.

But perhaps the biggest strength of these cables is the way they hold everything together. They have a low noise floor and lots of detail (more than than the Belden solid Cat6a used by BJC), but the detail is less shouty because it’s more fleshed out and more textured. Everything hangs together more and is more musically communicative, satisfying and expressive as a result.

I hope you’re as happy with yours as I am with mine.

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5696

Thanks Michaelb
Sounds good. I have got so disillusioned with the high end cables and I have tried almost all, I had settled on the bjc cat6a as being the all round best in my system. What I have found with all is they all bring something slightly different to the sound and initially that draws your attention and yet when you change back a week or two later you realise you are missing something else. So I have high hopes for these and look forward to the listening. I also hope to have a second ER in a week or so. I also read positive reports on a separate clock on them, so there is plenty more to try.
Cheers
Rich

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