Where I do agree with some of this, when it comes to female employees coming out with such accusations, one has to take into account what it takes to level a fake accusation.
Generally when a female employee comes out with a complaint of inappropriate behavior of this nature it really takes a toll on her life and career. From being in the spotlight during investigations to being ostracized by colleagues to becoming unemployable. This is sadly the current state of general equality in the workplace. Which is why, generally when it happens, it is usually not just done just to harm the guy in question.
If he is found guilty there will be a really high chance that he did it.
Not in any way. Problem with the whole woke/PC thing is not that they point out wrongdoings that previously people would have turned a blind eye to, it’s that people lose sight of what’s a reasonable punishment befitting the crime, and do not seem to believe in second chances.
It of course fully depends on what exactly he’s been found guilty off, and there’s definitely scenarios in which I think he should get fired. But I can also see scenarios in which a reprimand would be enough. Or any punishment/consequence in between those two like a suspension, fine etc.
But I do fear it will be either him being found innocent or being fired.
Agreed but I did say in any way guilty of the accusation. Which is sending inappropriate text messages to a female subordinate. Or in any case, that was what has been made public by the media.
There are no grey areas for me in doing that. Nothing to do with woke or PC. If he did anything related to those accusations he should be fired.
There’s gradations of inappropriate as well. A pick of ones third leg is something different than say a remark that might be a bit awkward and not fully appropriate at the time.
I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
For me there is gray, both for what someone does, and the punishment. It has to befit the crime.
If I understand you correctly, it’s either innocence and nothing happens, or he’s guilty and he gets fired.
I don’t agree. Any kind of comments tinted towards that side aimed at female (or male, for that matter) co workers are not acceptable. There are some boundaries one do not cross in a professional work environment where one wants to create a safe space for all.
If the media got it wrong, then by all means the grey kicks in.
Maybe I wasn’t clear enough, but I fully agree with this. That’s not where the disagreement is. Where we disagree is whether there’s only a single blanket punishment that’s appropriate for all scenarios covered by the above.
I hear you. I just think especially if you are in a leadership postion it becomes even more black white. I mean this is workplace 101. How can the Team Principal not know that or have any scenario where he can go on managing people if he cannot stop himself from doing that?
Wat happens next time someone else in the organisation does it then? Slap on the wrist cause even the Team Lead can’t behave himself?
But certainly not a harsher punishment that the team lead, I agree that leadership has to be held to a higher standard. Nowhere did I say Horner should be getting off easy because he’s a team lead.
It’s a unisex (embracing all I mean here) aspect IME, as the constant need for line-manager/peer reviews et al, especially in high performance environments, can create issues in itself – as you say, it can be tough in the kitchen, and one hopes selection processes are line of defence #1 for this. But doesn’t appear to be in play here – I think the hunger is for facts, not speculation.
the timing of this raises a few eyebrows though, right at the start of a new season, seems a bit choreographed to me, Anyway, all speculation, we’ll wait and see and hopefully he’ll get the benefit of due process.
At the risk of hogging this sub-topic I had this same doubt and when talking to a female F1 fan about it the response was when would have been a good time then. It would always be before something. Before the season, before a certain race, before a race where the scores are equal, before the championship decider… When could she come out with the complaint without making it look choreographed?
But as you say he is certainly deserving on due process.
The complainant still has a right of appeal so it is not over yet. I suspect this will rumble on for some time yet and no one will do well out of it, some will do worse than others.
