Furutech Discussion

Which cable do you feel has the best PRaT?

Did you also try this cable as the mains to the Puritan? I don’t think you answered my previous question on which cable you use for that at the moment.

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My thoughts would be, to get all the performance from the DPS 4.1 you need to run the FI-50 NCF R connectors on both ends, otherwise you’re limiting performance on what is a rather expensive bulk cable.

As far as if the cable is a good match, that you will have to decide. As I’ve mentioned, its far more transparent then the other Furutech offerings & also less coloured (just a slight amount of warmth). If the rest of your room/kit is up to it, it can make for an excellent sounding cable, but if you have any area lacking, it can also expose it.

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@daren_p
How’s the burn-in coming with your new power distrubutor? More ups than downs I hope.

@What_Are_You_To_Me
Small reminder to see if you saw the above question :smiley:

Burn in hasn’t really been an issue, being aware of the potential daily up & downs & with lots of other things keeping my time occupied, I’ve only listened a couple times, once a week sort of thing. And each time it sounded excellent :grin:

He did say he had it on his cable cooker for 6 days, think he normally only has the outlets on for a day or two, so I’m sure that helped speed up the process.

As expected it is another jump up in performance, basically just another level of what you’d expect to get when swapping an outlet for the GTX-D NCF R. Closer to the music is probably a good way to sum it up.

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Awesome! Thanks for the update. I was just looking at their site the other day and was thinking about that grounding post on your unit as I was watching an YouTube video on grounding.

Hi, saw this in the end. It’s a Puritan Classic Plus.

Which Furutech power distributor are you using? I have been speaking with the US importer about one - and also about the possibility of modifying it as well

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The unit I’m currently using (the one I posted pics of above, ~ 3weeks back) isn’t a complete Furutech unit, its one made by a local supplier/manufacturer, Audio Sensibility. In it they use a bunch of Furutech parts like the GTX-D NCF outlets, FI-09 NCF IEC inlet, etc.

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Ah yes - I remember looking at these.

To refresh your memory, if you look at my previous posts you will see I was not a fan of the GTX-D Rhodium. I am now, however, a fan of the GTX-D G duplex on my wall, with the NCF wall plate and NCF outlet cover. I also was not a fan of my DPS 4.1 w/ FI-50 NCF R ends… however that may be a function of my dislike of Rhodium.

I had several conversations with the US Furutech disctributor (who admits they have many who prefer GTX-D Gold over Rhodium) and they told me I could purchase a GTO-DR distribution box and have my retailer swap out the GTX-D R with the gold versions. They recommended this model over the E609.

I was getting ready to order a GTO and first try out the Rhodium outlets with my Siltech power cables (which have FI-11 gold ends standard from Siltech). If not happy with Rhodium I would swap out the outlets to the Gold versions.

Furutech distributors come with Formula GC-303 absorbing material applied inside. What is “Green Carborundum” which Audio Sensibility uses? Their version of a GC-303 material? I have to admit, from the sound of it Carborundum, it does sound a bit snake oily, or perhaps they are using the same material as Furutech and cannot use the same name.

Regardless I would be curious to hear your further take on the Audio Sensibility unit. On one hand I could simply go straight to gold with Audio Sensibility. On the other hand I could play with Rhodium with a Furutech block, and have my dealer swap outlets from Rhodium to Gold at a later point in time if I was not happy.

Why did you go with Audio Sensibility instead of a E609 - which has GTX-D outlets.

Additionally - the GTO-D3 has a “specially made FPX Rhodium outlet” - which, while not GTX-D, is extremely close according to the distributor. One more bonus - the GTO-D3 has the NCF wall plate and outlet cover on each outlet - which the distributor said is definitely not to be discounted, and part of the reason why he was recommending it over the E609

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AND
from the Audio Sensibility website

  • Gold or Rhodium? Choose gold plating for a perfect balance of organic presentation, detail, and low frequency bass response from your music. An ideal match for solid-state systems. Choose rhodium plating for extracting maximum resolution and detail from your music. An ideal match for tube systems.

So obviously there are fans and detractors of both materials

By the way - as I am building out a complete Siltech loom for my new DarTZeel-dCS system (speaker cable, interconnect, power cables) at one point I considered Siltechs Octopus distribution block with internal silver wiring. This is now off the table as the outlets used are a European brand hospital grade set. Interesting they do not use Furutech duplexes, as they use their plugs and IEC’s on their higher end cables.

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Carborundum is a hard, synthetic, chemical compound made of silicon and carbon that’s used as an abrasive, antislip additive, and refractory material:

So a refractory granular material probably intended to have a mechanical damping effect

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interesting
so used for a different purpose than the Furutech material which absorbs downward radiation transmission from the outlets

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Very interesting. I’ll have to research this unit. I thought it had lesser outlets(phosphor bronze)

Hi Mark

You are correct - they are phosphor bronze, which are “less good” than copper GTX-D outlets. With that said the importer felt the addition of the NCF wall plate + NCF outlet cover, on EACH duplex, was an extremely strong performance point possibly tipping the GTO over the E609 and its GTX-D outlets. So yes - the outlets are “less good”, however the NCF mountings are better. The GTO was built to achieve a price point - yet when it was sent out to a reviewer for comparison, it was the one which was deemed superior.

Another comment, admitted by him to be irrelevant, was he felt the GTO was a much nicer looking unit. I had also heard comments about the top plate of the E609 being delicate and it gets marked up quite easily.

I had another look at the Audio Sensibility box. While it would simplify things in my situation, as I could specify GTX-D Gold outlets from the get go, I refer back again to what the Furutech distributor told me. The Audio Sensibility does have GTX-D outlets, however they are simply mounted on a milled top plate, with their own tweak of a carbon fiber mounting sheet between duplex and top plate.

The GTO brings the NCF wall plate and outlet cover - deemed by Furutech to give it a definite advantage. It also has the Formula GC-303 EMI blocking material applied inside. The Audio Sensibility simply has resonance absorbing material. I also doubt Audio Sensibility would customize a box to include the NCF plate and cover.

As for the GTO - one could take it as is, with slightly lower spec non GTX-D outlets (still Rhodium) and NCF wall plate and cover. It could then be modified to become “uber” by changing the duplexes to GTX-D R, and effectively get it all - GTX-D R-NCF wall plate-NCF cover - something which would definitely outperform the E609

Best
Gregg

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@glevethan I haven’t compared the two but my guess would be the Audio Sensibility & TP609 NCF are probably more similar in sound then they are different, they both use similar components & seem like they are looking to solve the same types of issues in slightly different ways. The main reason I went the AS route is because Steve is local to me & he likes cash, so I got a rather good deal on the unit. Being a small outfit, I think his products offer a lot of performance vs price. If you price out what he puts into the unit, it would be hard to build one yourself for what he is charging (look at the Stillpoint footers themselves) & you’re not going to get a an enclosure of the same quality off the shelf (unless you’re able to CNC a solid billet of aluminum).

In regards to the GTO unit, for me personally that would likely be a hard pass. As I mentioned before rhodium is far more transparent/revealing of the base metal & phosphor bronze is a no go for me, this poor quality base metal is one of the reasons rhodium gets blamed on sounding bright (its not the rhodium that’s the issue, its the phosphor bronze). Now if your plan is to just swap the outlets out, then this might not be a bad option.

As I have mentioned, the rhodium ends are far more transparent vs the gold ends & far less coloured. The rhodium is basically telling you what you have where as the gold is artificially adding something to the sound. In your case, my guess would be the lack of warmth you’re hearing is due to the room itself. Basically you’re having to add gold to help warm this up due to the room. The problem with this is that the gold will significantly mask/hinder the transparency/resolution of your kit. In an acoustically treated room, it is rather shocking how much the gold ends mask things. This may not be possible in your case, but instead of trying to add warmth via gold connectors in your non treated room, my guess is you would likely have far better sound if you acoustically treated the room & went rhodium. If you remove the room itself from the sound you’re hearing, you’ll get the warmth/fullness your looking for, so you’ll no longer require the use of gold. Swapping to rhodium will then give you all the details you’re paying for with that top flight kit.

@daren_p
Thank you for the reply.
As for Audio Sensibility in your case it makes sense. They appear to be well made products using high quality parts. I was tempted as they already provide a distributor with GTX-d Gold duplexes.

As for the GTO I am in agreement with the phosphor bronze outlets. My plan is to receive the unit this weekend as I am tempted to break it in and listen to Rhodium coated outlets again before sending it bak off for “destruction”. Who knows - one may have a change of mind. Ultimately though, the unit will go back to the dealer and he will install GTX-D’s of my choice. As I purchased the 3 duplex GTO he even proposed mix and matching duplexes (between Gold and Rhodium) if I so desired.

As for the Rhodium vs. Gold debate, let’s continue to say we respectfully disagree. The Furutech distributor stated many have a dislike for Rhodium, just as I am sure others have a dislike for Gold. Even Audio Sensibility offers both so there is obviously differing opinions in the marketplace.

As for gold adding warmth, problems with Room treatment, etc. lets just say after 25 years of Naim ownership, 18 of those with 552DR/500DR, I never had any issues with the room. As for “all the details you’re paying for with that top flight kit”, in my case DarTZeel separates, it was the same. They have been here for a little over a year and there has never been any problem with details, warmth etc. Everything has been amazing, with an easily discernible uptick over my 552/500 kit. In other words no problem with the room. Even the dealer from whom I purchased my Stenheim 5SE speakers this past summer commented how good things sounded, and how well the room worked. He even ran over it with a frequency sweeper. PS - he is a veteran US based dealer frequently mentioned in Stereophile. He even expressed his dislike for Rhodium

The changes I experienced were simply brought about with the introduction of the GTX-D Rhodium duplex, and the GTX-D Gold has rectified that.

Now - something interesting is going on with my DPS 4.1 cable with FI-50 ends. I had been using this between the wall GTX-D Gold outlet and a Torus Isolation Transformer (which I am sure you know of residing in Canada). Last night I swapped it out with a Siltech Silver power cable - and first listen had me preferring the Furutech cable (which I disliked between the wall and DarTZeel amplifier). I need to have a nice listen today as unfortunately, having been skeptical, I have found that even cables which are broken in need time to settle down again if they have been inoperative from either sitting or being in transit.

I repeat again - it was so easy many years ago when I did not have to think about any of this. Use the cables, interconnects, Burndy’s etc which came in the Naim box and off to the races. This past year building out a completely new system, after so long with Salisbury green, has definitely been an eye opener. EVERYTHING changes the sound. Who would have thought a power cable on a $50k dCS DAC would change the sound. My DarTZeel preamp works off an internal battery and is good for 8 hours of listening. This is great as it totally removes the effect of the grid. The preamp has a small box which is a charging unit - it tops off the batteries and then automatically kicks in supplying wall current if the batteries get exhausted. I have read DarTZeel owners state that even the power cable on this box, even if it is not supplying wall current at the time, makes a difference. Go figure!

And finally to conclude - call me a fan of Siltech. I am now in completion of a full loom - speaker cables, interconnect and power cables. There are reasons why certain companies have longevity in the marketplace - Naim, Linn, dCS etc. Add Siltech to that list. 45 years of making cables - if there was not solid engineering behind their product I do not think they would have lasted this long.

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Sorry, you’ll have to re-fresh my memory, I was thinking you thought your setup was lacking warmth with the rhodium installed, what was it again you didn’t like?

Yes, as with most places AS sells both gold & rhodium, as with most things in audio, there is no correct answer. We all have different kit, in different rooms & have different sound preferences. As for the owner of AS, he does use all his own cables in his setup but all are swapped with the top of the line NCF Rhodium ends.

Lots of people do dislike rhodium but as I’ve described in plenty of detail above, a lot the time what their blaming on rhodium is not actually the cause of what their hearing. I myself use to not like sound of rhodium only to later find out the rhodium wasn’t really to blame for what I heard.

I have no issue with people choosing one over the other, the only thing I stand by as being a fact is rhodium is more transparent vs gold, if that is a good thing or not for the individual is up to them.

As for the room, it may sound very good for an untreated space but I can almost guarantee it would sound better with some proper treatment. I was previously in a room that had lots of soft furnishings, thick carpet, & some acoustic treatments (that I later found out were not performing to the level I thought they were). If you asked me how my room sounded, I would say it was very good. It was not till I got into my current space, that I realized my previous room wasn’t near as good as I thought it was & found massive improvements with the new room. As the saying goes, you don’t know, what you don’t know. My current room was just done with “best typical practices”, so no doubt there’s probably lots of room for improvements as well.

& please don’t take this as any sort of insult to your room or your listening, etc. I’m just trying to relay my personal experiences to help others. We all have a lot of passion for this hobby & often people can take it personally, which is never my intent. My post’s already tend to get rather long so I try & get to the point, which some may take another way.

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OK - I have to admit - this is one SERIOUS piece of kit!
I would go as far to say underpriced for what they give you. It also is a lead weight and has SERIOUS heft to it. If you have Anacondas to plug in, it will not be going anywhere.

For comparison, side by side with the original Wiremold block that so many US Naim owners have used in the past (I also have the Cable Pro and the Audience PDC - both collaborations done under the guidance of Chris Koster)

Question - I am going to assume EACH socket needs its own break in ???

6 x 400hrs = 2,400 hrs equals one large electricity bill😆

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This photo perfectly illustrates the issue I have. The Wiremold block realistically can only hold 5 powerlines as the outlets are too close together if you have a decent size plug.