Well in that case it must have been the Statement system that was driving them that made for the fine sounds you confessed to hearing. They are an exceedingly transparent speaker, and my thinking was they would disappear into your black wall.
HH is renowned for his loathing of Focal speakers. It quite irrational really and he is outnumbered on this forum. I might agree that the big ones are OTT, but by all accounts they sound good.
Phil
No, Filipe. Not by all accounts! Iāve not liked focal speakers when I have heard them - I hugely prefer Kudos titans. I have heard plenty of other people who donāt like focal speakers. HH is by no means the only one
The recent remarks above follow from some remarks about the recent factory visit. Iāve got nothing against the Titans. I get fed up with the constant mocking of Focal and itās totally without justification. Given most advise a length home demo I doubt many people other than owners can judge them. If people find they like a speaker then fine. I find them transparent/neutral and my Sopra 2s aesthetically to my liking. Quite frankly Naim demos donāt do the boxes or speakers justice, but if you preserve you get a quite wonderful sound. By all accounts they sounded amazing at the recent Factory visit though.
Enough thread drift. Iām particularly happy for @pcd.
I have heard both Focal and Kudos speakers many times, especially the Sopra and Titan ranges, which is mostly what we are talking about, I presume.
Yes, I too prefer Kudos Titans, BUT, the Sopra 3s at Naim HQ a couple of days ago, driven by 500 series and Statement amps, were a revelation. I have never heard a Sopra, or any other Focal speaker, even up to the Dalek size, sound so good.
Thatās what I heard as a private comment.
Phil
Sopra 3s are brutally revealing and it is essential to control (but not stifle) the top end. There was a lot of extended HF information coming from those Berillium tweeters, but it never got tiring. I would imagine this could be a problematic trait with Sopra, particularly if the amplification and room are not right. And of course Naim have spent a lot of time and money getting their listening room right.
I was impressed.
Sorry pcd, guilty again of thread drift
Mine have sounded better and better as the boxes were upgraded, which is why I describe them as transparent/neutral. I had some beautiful sounds from the 282 and 252. It was always the higher frequencies I liked. Powered by the 500 I began to experience the wonders of bass. 552/500 is very revealing of setup.
Phil
Interesting. I was at the Salisbury trip a few weeks ago where Mark demoed the 5xx and Statements with the Stella Utopias. For my taste it wasnāt an engrossing sound, the big Focals seems to separate each instrument to the point of losing the musical thread. Iāve heard 500s and Statements sound much better with other speakers (Kudos and PMC) at shorter dems. But the smaller Focals I have heard sound good, the Kantas with NDX2/SN2 sounded great at a show last year, and I have heard the Sopras sound good (and terrible, my first experience of Sopras was at Bristol and I thought they were terrible, in better rooms they sound very good). I had really high hopes for the Utopias at Salisbury, Richard has commented that Utopias had sounded amazing at the very end of a 2/3 day show, and a review I saw commented how long even a run-in pair to come on song. Given that a hotel room isnāt a great site for listening, I was expecting that the fantastic Naim listening room and a presumably well run-in and powered up pair of Stellas would allow them to shine. But not for me. I suspect that my view and others is coloured by the experience of the big speakers and poorly sited/run-in Sopras.
I was surprised they did not put a Ndx2/sn3/ new Choral 816 at the forum invite. The Choral range are inexpensive and punch well above their weight imo.
Yup, I have heard Sopras sound very good and poor. I have never gelled with the big Focals but I would imagine it is tricky to get the Daleks sounding at their best.
Funnily enough I have only ever heard Kantas sound rather good, on lesser Naim gear.
I guess we should really get back to the 606s, which are a stonking speaker IMHO.
(Had to quickly correct āstinkingā to āstonkingā. Bl**dy auto correct).
I think the speakers take the blame when the fault is elsewhere. Iād encourage everyone to experiment lots to understand the effects of some of the variables. I can make mine dry and uninteresting quite easily as @Eoink mentions . I would not expect my system to sound good on the day of being moved somewhere else. One expects the Factory room setup to be repeatable but it can take days for the boxes to warm up. I would not want this setup taken apart so it was there to wow visitors on demand.
Phil
How much grunt do need for the 707ās ?
Yes it was the Statement system I was referring to. What I said was āEarly on in the day a comparison was made between the 552/500 amplification and the Statement and I managed to convince myself that the 500 series wasnāt totally disgraced by its bigger brother, but this was without doubt the best demo Iāve experienced of the Statement system.ā My previous experience of Statement has been at Hifi shows, which are nearly always compromised in one way or another.
BTW I assume you meant ābackā not āblackā - I donāt think Iād be allowed to paint the walls black!
Back on track, I wonder what that Kudos Titan 606 speakers would sound like on the end of ND555/CD555PSDR and Statement?!
Yes it is interesting, I have been looking into this and experimentingā¦ itās not true top end that makes a speaker sound bright, itās the upper mid from 1K into lower treble between 4K to 6K that seems to give the appearance of brightnessā¦ so you can attenuate that and leave true treble untouched, and you still get that lovely presence and feel, but you can tame any forwardness than can be exacerbated from reflections from smooth plastered walls and lowish smooth plastered ceilings in a typical modern UK house.
And, if I recall correctly, your āproper Naim Speakersā are NBLs which wipe the floor with any Focals I have ever heard including top of the range on the end of Statement Amplification.
Still Iām with HH, never heard any Focals I like.
That is my experience too, but to be fair I have only heard the Sopra series on the end of serious equipment. But I have found there is a strong characteristic portrayal of the sound that just doesnāt work for meā¦
Yes exactly although to prove I am not just Focal averse, I have never heard any B&Ws Iāve liked either, in fact I consider them even worse.
If I ever have to replace my NBLs my initial starting point will be Kudos particularly now Naim are supporting active.
I was going with this quote of yours
Youāll be pleased to know that they were using Sopra 3 speakers just like yours on the end of a Statement system (they also demonstrated a āhumbleā 500 system too). Fine sound indeed.
The photo you sent had what looked like a black wall at the back.
The new Naim dem room has the obvious batons placed over the vertical walls and levered shutters on all the windows. What you donāt see is that the vertical walls have a āmembraneā (like a fine hessian wall paper) raise about 2 cm off the solid wall, on top of which the batons are placed. They seen to have built panels of the suspended membrane, and I was told it took several days to complete.
So all the walls are damped and have the reflecting and dispersing batons. The ceiling I believe is untreated. There were two large plants in pots between each speaker and the back corners, acting as bass traps.
This all seems to work wonderfully and the extremes (including the upper mids if that causes brightness) were under control but never sounded āsat onā. I would imagine, knowing Naim, there was a fair amount of trial and error before the final treatment was selected and installed. I got the distinct impression that this was a costly exercise. Charlie emphasised he was keen not to stray too far from a normal domestic room so that all SQ improvements from Naimās ongoing developments/upgrades to kit could be replicated in a normal home, whatever one of those is.
We were told the listening room improvements, together with the new forum were two things that Charlie signed off soon after his arrival. The Naim team seemed very grateful for this and as so many developments rely on listening tests at the factory, this would appear to be a wise investment.
Interesting ā¦ I canāt click with B&W speakers eitherā¦
I am more a Kudos, ATC, (some) PMC type listener.