Legacy users unite! How do you modernize your streamer?

Streaming Audio
22

My nd5 died and realized it’s worth less than it would cost to ship it out to get a repair estimate. Seriously. I’m now using a modern dCS streamer with Roon and I can’t imagine going back to an old Naim streamer. Trade in value of my completely functional NDX is about $0 btw.

If I were on a budget, I’d buy a Lumin U1 mini streamer to feed the nd5. Actually… I’d sell the nd5 and buy a used Berkeley Alpha dac with mqa.

The old Naim streamers were great but now they’re just hopelessly outdated. In two years nobody will be streaming via local files and that was the strength of the original platform.

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24

I got a lumin u1 mini for $1,800. It’s a great value and a better streamer than the nd5. Since Naim neglected to provide usb out from the new streamers I wouldn’t buy one. Based on posts on this forum, the Bartok is better than ndx2+555 which is > $20k.

26

A huge sweeping generalisation. And most likely incorrect.

I spent an some time this afternoon listening to Qobuz streaming on my ND5XS.

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27

You can’t deny the facts. When diehards like us have died out, sales of CDs and downloads will fizzle out. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next generation of Naim servers didn’t include a ripper.

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28

This probably includes millions of Spotify/mobile users rather than from a hifi perspective.

I’ve got stuff on LP that isn’t available on CD let alone streaming. Others have expressed that they have hundreds of CDs that are nowhere to be seen on Tidal/Qobuz.

29

You are illustrating entertainment industry vs. music business. Streaming is to a large extent playlist-based easy listening, sometimes just a backdrop. It is only natural it will dominate sales - it is a versatile form of music suitable for playing while you are training, cleaning the house or just hanging out. It is also a more indirect and anonymous form of consumption where the artist gets paid by TV, radio, ads, management companies.

Buying an album is more of a commitment but so far has been the only way. Now there is choice. Enthusiastic fans buying an album can build a direct bond to an artist and fully finance even small releases. You will never finance the recording of string quartets by Alban Berg over playlist-based streaming. Personally I think this type of music will be available over internet services with richer experience than just copying a flac+picture to a server like todays streaming services.

30

If you want to listen to complete albums on a streaming service, you can. Nobody is forcing you to use playlists.
It’s true that the major streaming services don’t connect you closely to the artist, but neither did buying a CD in HMV. The internet is a powerful way to connect artists with their listeners, and as a niche this can thrive, whether or not Spotify are involved.
Bandcamp is a good medium for this. They encourage communication between artists and listeners. As a result of using them, I contributed through a Kickstarter campaign to help fund an album by an upcoming artist I like. A few days ago it linked me to a live streamed concert from another artist who had used her initiative to keep performing under lockdown. I see plenty of scope for this sort of stuff in the future, and I don’t see that buying physical media, or even downloads, has to be a part of it.

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32

A Sonore UPnP Bridge and Roon does it for me to allow me to use my ND5XS.

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33

People with streamers rip them. I was arguing that moving on from that (and downloads) opens the door to music discovery in a wide variety of ways. Some people seem to think that web based streaming is just about being fed playlists from Tidal.

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34

One idea is to use the legacy streamer as intended - with a local UPnP-server which gives excellent results.

I use an Intel i7 NUC with 16Gb RAM and 6Tb SSD in a fanless HDPlex box. It gives me a choice to run Audirvana, Roon Rock or almost any UPnP-server. Just place it far from the Fraim (another room) for optimal sound-quality.

I run Debian Linux where I disabled all system services not needed. And then Minimserver 2, Minimstreamer 2 and SongKong. A reliable UPnP-server with very powerful metadata handling.

The above produce excellent results via a 272/555DR.

This year I’ve been able to borrow a NDX2 and tested as NDX2/555DR/252DR. The NDX2 has a pre-buffering scheme (at least with UPnP). I don’t know if it was this but Minim+NDX2 sounded incredibly good.

Also important is using a clean CD and a level, bug-free disc-reader when ripping CD.s.

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35

My kids, nieces, and nephews have never purchased a cd. They have never used a CD player. Their computers never had dvd drives built in. For $30/month six of us get unlimited streaming from tidal. I’m a huge music fan and a bit of an audiophile and I haven’t purchased a cd since 2016? Honestly don’t know where to buy cds other than Amazon and they just launched their own cd quality streaming service. Yeah the two years was a bit of hyperbole but five years?

The nd5 is great and I own one. It’s dead now but it’s too pretty to throw out. The world has moved on to Roon, USB, and a bit of MQA.

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37

Easy

Roon
ROCK
SonoreUPnP Bridge

Makes the Naim Network player a UPnP enabled DAC (what it was designed to be and optimised for).
The SonoreUPnP Bridge outputs a WAV stream to my NDS for all PCM formats and DSD64 for all DSD formats.

Roon does all the frontend work with Tidal incl. Tidal Masters, Qobuz and lately Lossless Internet Radio, and will support MQA Radio when this is introduced. It also deals with all formats including DSD128, DSD256, DSD256, DXD, MQA

You then have a reference grade network player system that does everything any other Roon based system does - Modernization solved.

You shouldn’t need/use WiFi, AirPlay, Chromecast, Bluetooth in this type of system. If you need them, Roon supports other endpoints for use in other rooms, for instance I have 2 Chromecast enabled WiFi Waterproof speakers in the bathrooms, a Chromecast WiFi Audio system into powered speakers in the bedroom, powered USB Desktop speakers in home office for use with laptops, Bluetooth speakers for use with mobile endpoints/Bluetooth dongle. Won’t want/allow of this technology into my main system.

The SonoreUPnP Bridge approach avoids use of a S/PDIF connection, which as a synchronous data stream comes with limitations and problems, especially as the bit rate goes up beyond 16/44.1 (which it was designed to support)

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38

I’m currently using a bubble container on my NAS to stream Qobuz lossless (using Kazoo app) and minimserver to stream lossless radio stations (Naim app). Would Roon allow me to simplify these workarounds?

39

Roon would give you one application to do everything so from a user interface perspective it is simpler. I use Roon to control all my music devices from all manufacturers. It will do local music, Tidal/QoBuz and internet radio, including lossless.

You still need a server which is called a Roon Core and also a software bridge to enable Roon on your legacy streamer and of course the Roon application on your PC or tablet to control it.

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40

Thanks for the reply, would I have to use my Macbook or could I use my iPad or iPhone like I do currently? I don’t want to be on my computer when listening to music if that’s possible. I’m not sure what a Roon Core is, is that a physical device or is it an app I could run on my NAS?

41

Think of Roon Core as the Roon equivalent of a UPNP server but more complex.

A Roon Core can run on Windows, Linux, Mac or some more powerful NAS devices. Most NAS devices don’t meet Roons minimum requirements but may work OK.

Roon also have a distribution call ROCK. This is a distribution of Roon with an included operating system. It is only supported on Intel NUC’s which are very small but quite powerful PC’s. Roon ROCK creates a server which behaves like an appliance. It’s easy to manage as there’s nothing to manage!

To control Roon you can use an Android or Apple tablet or Phone. Also you can run it on a MAC or Windows computer, unlike the Naim application.

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42

Thanks for all that, it’s a bit to digest. I prefer not to add to my collection of computers and devices if I can. If I could get rid of the NAS for this Nuc thing that could work I think. Or perhaps upgrade my NAS to run Roon. Though I’d rather spend money on a new 372 and not need all the extra stuff.

43

Your current solution is simple and works with free software, Roon requires extra hardware and a £14/month subscription on top as well as looking like an almighty faff.

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44

I think you are doing just fine currently. If your goal is a 372, hold tight for now.

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45

Crazy isn’t it. Same goes for video. I must have spent months or years ripping DVDs/BluRays and trasncoding to formats suitable for streaming locally to my media streamers, and no one apart from me probably watches them anymore. Even hundreds of purchased TV Shows/Movies from iTunes are rarely played back locally on the LAN anymore as it’s virtually all ‘in the cloud’.

So many times I’ll find family watching something on Netflix or Prime and mention that I have the BluRay somewhere, but the simplicity of instant streaming makes the BluRays redundant for most things, unless it’s a title I really want best quality.

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