LP12, lid on or off?

Nice selection Tiberio, you should join the Reggae thread.

:grin:

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I use my LP12 with the lid on.

To stop any dust mainly. I hard enough keeping records clean in the first place.

To be honest the difference in sound is so slight - different vs better or worse in my view.

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Since I own LP12s (~ 1977) everyone played without lid. Back in the 80th we had three different LP12 available and tested extensively. In the end we all agreed without lid is better.

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So a very thin vibrating piece of plastic can somehow reduce airborne vibrations affecting a stylus under great force in a groove and that benefit is greater than the detrimental effect of a lid and hinges sat on the delicate suspended motor, chassis, arm, source, etc…?

Yes ok.

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A lid would reduce some airborne vibrations (sound) - and it could resonate and make worse at certain frequencies.

There is the potential for a plastic lid to become electrostatically charged and for the proximity of that to have an effect, though I don’t know whether that would have any effect.

When I had a TT in an enclosed space with no lid but a wooden shelf about the same distance above it as a lid, I lined the cupboard with damping/absorbent material to minimise resonances and sound reflections - including the underside of the shelf above the TT. No idea if it made a difference as I didn’t try without, just made sense to me.

Regarding sound, one person’s idea of musicality and what sounds best to them is different from another. If the question is what is most accurate, as in closest to the originally recorded sound on the disk, there may be an answer but you’d only know by reference to some absolute source, if such a thing were available - or maybe the original LP mastering engineer! And if the question is which sounds best, that may be different for different people - possibly even different music. And what matters is what sounds right/best to the those normally listening.

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:small_blue_diamond:I look at the comments from some in the thread,.and notes that knowledge and experience are missing about this,…and to install an LP12 optimally.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

But then try to irony and ridicule it all instead.
Yes it is very boring for those who read this and other threads,.and want to get some knowledge. I really agree with @Count.d in what he wrote earlier in the thread…

If you use the right method to test and obtain the musicality,.it is not subjective.
I have not yet met anyone during my 36 years with LP12’s,.who has had a different opinion about Soundquality and Musicality when we have installed and evaluated LP12’s.

:small_orange_diamond:I’ve just talked to the most talented at LP12’s in Sweden,.Karl on High Fidelity in Stockholm.

He has had courses on Linn about setting up and installing LP12’s.
He has a very high reputation at Linn,.I have presented him in my “LP12-Radikal Problem”-
thread on the old forum.
He says,.as I said earlier,…

“Sounds it better with a lid,.so is there something that is wrong in your….
:black_small_square:Set-up.
:black_small_square:Installation.
:black_small_square:And,.Or placement of your LP12.”

Karl also said,…
That Linn has never had any lid on their LP12’s in their demonstration-rooms at Linn HQ.

And since the 80-century,…
Karl has never seen Ivor have any lid on his LP12,.and they have often met since the 80-century.

Karl also said,.that some who are less knowledgeable,may think that it sounds better,fuller and warmer with the lid on.
This,.among other things,because it adds distortion.
But it is the wrong way to go.
You must then instead,.optimize your LP12,.and all things around it for maximum musicality.

Sounds it better with the lid on,.then there is something wrong in your set-up,.Says Karl.

/Peder🙂

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:small_blue_diamond:Please,I find the thread interesting.
Let it be open.

/Peder🙂

Can I suggest those unhappy with what others have said about them, or they think others have said, go back and read through the thread carefully, including considering how their own posts read to another person. As an independent person doing so it is clear to me who is in the wrong here. Perhaps if that person were to read the thread through they would recognise and make amends, which I imagine would be appreciated by all.

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i personally don’t completely believe someone at 100% in a forum or even someone like Michael Fremer vinyl specialist.
For DB point of view, i can’t say he is right or wrong. But it’s interesting to read his experience and point of view, which is based more on his personal feeling than scientific closed theories.
I feel there is no definitive truth for lid on or off , as long or short ethernet cables or switch near or away from the streamer, or best isolation device under a component…
The truth , at the end , is on our ears.

I will report also on my experience with lid on or off later. But in the past i detected no real differences.

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OK, I’ve decided to step in here and I have edited some of the more unnecessary and rather ‘ad hominem’ posts and responses. May I remind members that all is opinion here - and everybody is entitled to express their opinion provided it falls within the rules of the forum. Furthermore, making judgments and trying to attach labels to others based upon their opinion not agreeing with your own, while perhaps not an unusual human trait, is one that is unhelpful, and might well be considered a personal attack; ergo, it falls outside of forum AUP. Thank you. Carry on, but nicely please…

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:small_blue_diamond:Frenchrooster,…There is,.in Sweden and in some other places…Linn HQ :wink::grin:.
See my last long post.

Ps: Now I’m just talking about an original LP12.
No third party LP12’s,.for them I have no personal experience of.
But my friends have,.And they also say…Lid Off.

/Peder🙂

In Sweden perhaps, but swedish are a bit different from common human people. They are not made as us . Probably God took them too quickly out of the oven :star_struck::partying_face::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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An LP12 lid can acquire enough static to reduce tracking weight of the stylus.
This can add a complication that’s difficult to rectify if the lid is left on while playing a record.

My listening tests in my room with my LP12 confirm better SQ with lid off, and i don’t believe this is only a statically charged lid problem but most probably more to do with airborne vibration on the lid.

Lid off gives more room to flip-over and change records too.

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Last time I compared I felt they offered different benefits. Lid off sounded more open and was easier to follow a specific musician and appreciate musicianship / timing of that player. Lid on was easier to follow the band as a whole, with better timing/sync between band members.

I was told Ivor prefers ‘lid on’ - not that that really matters - we each need to please ourselves.

Regardless of setup, I don’t think everyone will agree all of the time otherwise we’d all have very similar systems at similar price points. HiFi is full of compromises and often you can’t have the best of both worlds. It’s fine if you use the same evaluation method (tunedem for example) then people in the same room will likely agree (although not always) but not everyone wants to apply the same evaluation method.

Hey guys n gals, I have seen some of the deleted comments polluting my email inbox.
Get a grip folks, it’s just a plastic lid! Crikey, a simple casual question turns into a punch up!
"Tonight’s heavyweight contest, on my left Boris Lidonn, on my right the challenger Herman Lidoff, your referee Richard Dane, seconds out…!

:rofl:

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very hot weather may give some aggressiveness. Keep the fan on!

No need for anyone to flip their lid :grin:

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An excellent suggestion, but I doubt they will. As my grandma used to say there comes a time to put a lid on it.

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Lid off mostly, largely as it makes sense to me and my understanding of resonance and energy being put into my LP12. Honestly, I notice little or no difference.