Can you give some examples of high end MM cartridges that get close to high end MC cartridges feeling_zen ?
This I would be very interested in
Thanks
Well at the higher end of MM but by no means on the price level of of truly high end MC, you have things like the Ortofon 2M Black 250 LVB, Sumiko Amethyst, Vertere Sabre. All in the $800 - $1200 range. If you want MM in the serious MC price category you start getting into some very niche brands. My dealer has a few in that sort of $5k plus range I am unfamiliar with. I can make a note when I pop in if you like.
Most expensive MM I saw was something in AudioUnion in Tokyo. About $13k. Brand unfamiliar. Visually similar to a Koetsu.
Could you make a note when you see your dealer thanks Iām very interested in MM cartridges around the $5k range
Iām a MC cartridge guy but if there are MM ones out there that can slot into the Nait 50 phono input thatās a huge plus
Much appreciated feeling_zen
I think there are some Grado moving-iron carts that are very good.
Indeed in the limit the more you are paying for is evermore intricate mitigations to the inherent limitations of moving magnetā¦ that is there is more mass and inertia to be handled so as to be compliant with the groove compared to moving lighter coils which are easier to track the groove and the lesser inertia makes finer detail recovery easier/possible, but that is also moving coilās challenge, you need higher quality mechanics and electronics to stop distortions and noise becoming too prominent compared to moving magnet because of moving coils typical greater sensitivity.
A lot of the really good MM have much lower iron mass though and consequently their output is much lower than a standard MM and closer to a high output MC.
But Iād like to reiterate what I said before. Iām not claiming theyāre as good. But I am saying that writing them off out of hand for serious listening is short sighted. For example a lot of audiophiles write off anything that isnāt class A amplification. Donāt want to know about. Donāt want to discuss it. But as we know by now thereās more than one way to skin a cat.
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Indeed the best MM cartridges have intricate designs of cantilever, pivots and suspension filaments as well to allow better compliance tracking of the weight of the tiny magnetsā¦ which as suggested can be made relatively low mass.
Yes I think it would be churlish to write them off, but I suspect you can get better performance per pound with moving coilā¦ up until perhaps the truly exotic.
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2M Black or Bronze are both very fine carts and should work optimally into the loading of the Nait 50. After that, put spare cash where it brings the most benefit - upgrading the turntable.
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As good as the Nait 50 phono is (very good!), at some point if going somewhere in the MM carts stratosphere it might make sense to use an external (better) phono stage too. Even with just a good AT MM, with the NVC TT I can hear a fair bit more joy and improvement that I find difficult to ignore. I still think though that the Nait 50 could justify cartridges up to the 1k mark on its own.
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Iāve often wondered how many ways there actually are to skin a cat!
Come on nowā¦ that is a bit insensitive to some of our members, isnāt it. Iām sure @Alley_Cat would agreeā¦
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From reading your posts Simon, Iām sure you know this but worth mentioning here: many high output moving iron cartridges are lower mass than moving coil (Grado, Soundsmith, Goldring, etcā¦). Interesting to note that Soundsmith makes less high output moving iron cartridges these days. Peter Ledermann said this is because at higher price points, customers demand low output for their mc phono stages. This is unfortunate, imho. In years past, one could go all the way up the line and get a high output version of their cartridges. Not an endorsement of Soundsmith or MI cartridges. I wasnāt impressed the one time I heard a Soundsmith. I do know some of that had to do with this system involved.
At any rate, among my staple of cartridges that cost much more, Iāve got a lowly AT-VM95sh on one of my tables. Itās surprising how good it sounds. If everything else was taken away, I am sure I would soon forget the others and contentment would set in. I muck around with this hifi stuff but I suppose Iām not much of an audiophile.
My apologies, particularly to you, Mr A. Cat!
(Which rather reminds me of Monty Pythonās Miss Ann Elk, but letās not start that one runningā¦)
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Probably best to avoid talk of swinging cats too, lest people get the wrong idea!
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Hiā¦ are you referring cartridge weight, or mass of tiny magnets vs very fine coils I think we were referring to the latter, cartridge tracking weights do indeed very much vary.
I was talking to a bit of vinyl junky the other weekā¦ and he said for many the appeal of vinyl is the so called āwarmā soundā¦ I donāt suppose he was referring to audiophiles here, as clearly a sound warmer than it should be is hardly hifiā¦ but he told me many MM cartridges in the lower to lower mid price points acted as kind of filters due to the relatively slow compliance, and so indeed produce a warm soundā¦ and as such these cartridges were in demand currently for those coming into vinyl without a hifi background.
Referring to mass of the coils. The way a moving iron is designed, they are often the lowest moving mass option. It does seem that moving mass is getting smaller on moving magnet cartridges though. At least I thought I read about that somewhere.
When the time comes Iāll have no qualms about going to a good MM probably with one of the Trig b bodies and easy to change my own
ā needle ā 
Diminishing returns and all that. 
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I have an SN3 and have just spent the weekend listening to a 50 my local dealer lent me. Currently on offer, tempting discount.
I found it ok at lowish volume with acoustic music. When playing rock and jazz, the 50 seemed to struggle to control my PMCs at reasonable listening levels. HF seemed harsher than the SN3. Various visitors seemed to agree.
Also noticed the power of opening drums, example being Bad Company, canāt get enough of your love and The WHOās canāt explain seemed to be reduced and lacked immediacy.
All in all, a nice amp, great value at the moment, but Iām taking it back tomorrow .
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Nice little amp for a hint of nostalgia but bigger amps are there for a reason. 
I need no more than my SN3 
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