Next upgrade: more from the bass!

Hi-Fi Corner
101

Getting your speakers on Isoacoustic Gaias or Townshend Posium (as others have suggested), and then repositioning them, might well give cleaner and more distinct bass - it has for me here in Tasmania. “

Please don’t forget trying repositioning after changing what is under your speakers -and that that repositioning can apply to the speakers and your listening chair (use REW or a similar programme to check the room effects if analytically inclined).

I have never had a 282, but have had the predecessor 82 for many years. 1 HC to 2 was to my ears a tiny upgrade, and a SC was a bigger one, but to get more grip and more space only a 52 (or 252) upgrade satisfied.

That was with a 250. I tried my 82 with my 300DR a year ago and it was to my old ears not a good mix, despite 52/SC/300DR working brilliantly. This makes me wonder whether you might benefit from a change toward the front end too.

If cheap solutions at the speaker end don’t give you what you want, you may benefit from borrowing a 252 or 52 to see whether you actually need an improvement at that end. Mind you, I would not encourage you to spend that sort of money (even on eBay) without hearing it at home first.

Good luck!

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102

Thanks @NickofWimbledon. I’ve got my heart set on a NAC552 at some point, so think I will skip the 252 step. They are becoming more “affordable” and I’m hoping they should come into my price bracket in a year or two when any new 500 series gear comes out? They are already as low as £8-10k second hand. Still silly money mind :man_facepalming:

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103

Can seriously recommend a Rel Carbon Special. Although my 805D4 Signatures are really super with their bass response, the Rel just adds that fuller richer deeper chest thumping bass so many can’t live without. Suggest you give one a trial. But be careful because it’s addictive….

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104

I’ve been thinking a little about why cushions and padding at the back of the speakers are having such a big effect on clearing up the sound? It can’t be having too much impact on primary reflections from higher frequencies as these fire forward? Obviously it’s absorbing bass frequencies.

Then I thought, the speakers are base ported (but the hole opens up to the rear wall) and isobaric. So there is an internal speaker that is generating both mid and bass frequencies, some of which will ultimately exit the speaker out the port at the back.

Perhaps the cushions are also absorbing some of the early reflection midrange frequencies after all, but from the hidden speaker?

I’m certainly no expert. Anyone else has similar issues with isobaric speakers and rear wall reflections?

The more I add, the more the speakers come alive :joy:

Thanks you for everyone’s comments, I think I’m finally getting somewhere!

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105

IME, it’s just not isobarics or dependent on porting – my ARTs port downwards.

I know you’ve spoken about your operational limitations with placement, but I really do wonder what would happen if you brought them far more forward (leave the ‘treatment’ in), as you may get ‘cancellations’, which would clean-up the LF, helping the overall musical picture in the process. This is why some of the room treatment threads on here are so interesting, as the domestic compromises can be severe.

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I can’t quite figure out whether you have a London accent and are referring to the contents of that barrel, or you are just talking about sticking cushions on the wall :grimacing:

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107

Oh no!

“Yes” !!!

Rear ported needs the rear wall to get the manufacturers freq response curve…
(the book will have guidelines for a minimum recommended distance)

My ‘guess’ regarding damping the direct route out (to the wall) is that you may have had ‘such a tight bass’ that it was ‘feelable’ but not ‘hearable’… and the more we break up those waves the more ‘hearable it becomes’…

Just speculation

I feel at this point it is time to ‘get the string out’ (and a mirror)…
and do the due dilligence- use the mirror on the side walls, and ‘from the listening position’, take not of where you ‘see’ the drivers; this is ‘direct pathways for your second reflections’.

It is possible to measure the length of that pathway and figure out ‘how long’ (time) between direct sound and reflected sound.
Our brain needs’ a minimum amount of time to be able to ‘process’ that there is a gap and actually make use of ‘the room’.

I’d also encourage some bass (frequency) sweep (tones) and listen for ‘gear changes’ or a ‘lack of smoothness’, and move speakers to get the frequency response (low) as ‘smooth as possible’. (by positioning from the rear wall and 'with dampening materials).

The toe in doesn’t alter the rear porting ‘distance’ too much, so sorting one, and then the other, and ‘then a slight adjustment’ (front /back movement) to readjust the bass frequency to ‘what you had’ should allow a 'best of both worlds.

30cm (a foot) is the minimum for our ears to discern a time difference,… but 1 metre is normal zone,… (not quoting any reference material here, and I welcome any placement experts to come in a trump this info, especially with their favourite chewyyoube links to further this discussion)…

not trying to be an expert, just get the ball rolling…

using the above guide… the length of string measurement bouncing via the side wall and direct,… will have a measurable difference… factoring the ‘speed of sound’ that allows you to figure out the ‘timing’ that those second reflections are delayed.
(you can vary that length by moving the speakers closer/further to the side walls), which, when also factoring what is needed for bass, might come up with an ‘odd placement’ to consider for the speakers to be… (but maybe ‘try it’)…

using familiar test tracks might get you so far… (with regards to soundscape, yes, but with regards to bass delivery, may not cover enough spread to fully know ‘what is going on’).

I must admit I have’cheated’ a few times…
I ‘borrow’ the surround amp from the theatre room and use it generating a graph on a screen to ‘see’ what is going on with the bass frequencies,… and then I move the speakers until I get pretty dam close to flat line sound,… (And then I take the processor back out of my ‘den’ setup).

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108

Well, I plugged in the HiLine last night and I’ve given it a few hours listening. It’s a rather nice piece of kit isn’t it!

Much more musical and “easier” or “relaxing” sound. My dealer (s) should have been pushing cable upgrade on me a long time ago. The second PowerLine on the 555ps didn’t make a huge difference, but I guess inside the 555ps is where all the power streamlining goes on. I guess I should try it on the HiCap instead?

I was very surprised when I added some glass to my rack, and now I’m very surprised when I change a copper cable. Small changes make very audible differences…

With some new cables and speaker positioning with acoustic treatment (which made the biggest difference to the bass), Im now back in a happy place with my HiFi!

I will try some power blocks in the new year, but the bass is already back on song.

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Thanks. You scare me though, is I’m worried I will end up down a rabbit hole of acoustic treatment and will have to explain to my wife why all the artwork had disappears :joy:

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You can buy panels printed with the artwork of your choice (IIRC GIK, for example, a range of stock options, but also custom printed).

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Glad I mentioned it :wink: … in post 4

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Why thank you good sir @Christopher_M, much appreciated :smiley:

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No…you need to get the quality, tightness, tunefulness, texture…etc right… bass is not easy to get right…then throw the room into the mix… the correct speaker amp matching is the key…in my humble opinion… for music I think the sub should allow the main speakers to do their thing…and then the sub gently rolls in…this is how I set mine…works great.

114

Surely if those are rear ported speakers,
Remove cushions they are baffling the bass?
Won’t cost anything to try

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I’d like to demonstrate turning my two REL Carbon Special subwoofers on and off to showcase the improvements in soundstage, imaging, and overall frequency quality, spanning from the highs to the bass. I always enjoy seeing the look of disbelief on listeners’ faces when they experience the difference.

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116

It won’t make any difference whether rear, front, or bottom ported with respect to the cushions. The key thing is that space between a surface needs to be at least a diameter of the port away to not affect the port function and tuning.
You will more likely find the speaker coupling to a wall or surface being more relevant on the distance between the speaker and a boundary.
Some speaker designs prefer rear ports to stop higher frequencies leaking through the port being obviously audible to the listener.

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117

Tomorrow I’m going to borrow a supercap and chord M6 power block from a dealer. Both would be a similar price as the supercap is exdem (it depends slightly on which chord powercable you use etc).

It will be interesting to see which one might add more “weight” to the sound, if any?

Overall though, moving the speakers back, but toeing in a little (to reduce side reflections) has helped a lot.

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Im now the proud owner of a Chord M6 powerblock.

I am now exactly where i was aiming from the start of this journey. I was looking for more lower end weight in my system.

The HiLine and Powerline helped.

The M6 helped the most.

The thud from kick drums etc just sounds so real and powerful. I knew the kudos 606s had it in them, I just needed to do some tweaking (and spend some money :joy:)

Thanks for your help everyone

Rich

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119

The mighty BBC LS5/8 monitors (the mutant cousins of the LS3/5A with built-in QUAD405-derived onboard amplification) were reputed to have bass so powerful that they could affect the milk yield of cattle in neighbouring counties.

I confess that I have never heard a pair, but the image of distressed cattle has always stuck in my mind.

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120

Someone is pulling your teats

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