And, in the interest of balance for the OP, some of us see things differently (or rather hear!). I never cease to be amazed how some people are content with what to me are very limited speakers while spending huge amounts on amplification. I have tended to be the other way round, though I don’t think I’ve ever thought about the relative proportions on different components, and certainly not when making buying decisions. In my case, since the mid 1970s I think my speakers have always had a greater new equivalent value than my amplification - from probably near parity up to 4 times as much… I’ve never been unhappy with my speaker choices (though my very first were a leaning experience).
There is no right or wrong in this hobby - but there are multitudinous choices, and nearly as many opinions, which makes it both interesting and a challenge for people starting out before they get to understand the variability, and start to learn what they like in terms of music presentation.
I listened to 25.24is and 25.23is back to back last weekend on the end of the new Naim Classics (222/300/250).
I had previously discounted the 25.24is on size but they sounded fantastic. They had an ease of presentation that the 25.23is couldn’t quite match (in that room anyhow). Both very fast and open. The 250.3 gripped the bass fantastically on the 24s; the 23s couldn’t quite match that unsurprisingly given their size.
I could live with both but if I can get the 24s across the line with the other half then consider me sold…
Hi @Sinewave
Yes I can readily imagine the new classic trio really making the 25.24i’s sing. It’s surely a case of seeing how the speakers sound in your own room that will decide. I hope you get the green light (for the white lights).
And although I would say the minimum to properly drive the 25.23 would be the 250DR, the SN3 and 25.24 gel really well together.
@feeling_zen Contrary to the popular approach, speakers have always had the biggest impact on all my systems.
The SN3 is a magical piece of kit. It deserves the best speakers one could afford! I’ve heard it with Dynaudio Heritage (far easier to drive than their specs would have you believe) and the sound is out of this world good. Better than 252+300DR+Contour 20i for example. Yes, really.
I think I’d agree. To me source first is a misunderstood approach. You cannot make up for lost information at any step in the chain, so from this perspective, the source is the most important (first). But that does not mean that the most funds should be allocated to the source or that it should be the first thing selected. It just means it is the most critical. You don’t want to start with a bottleneck.
But speakers, well they set the tone for the whole system. So while I do not necessarily believe in spending the most on them, I tend to choose these first and build a system around the speakers. Getting the right speaker for your personal taste and the right speaker for the room is a massive challenge. Get that wrong and your fine source is for naught.
As for the 24s, larger cones are usually easier to drive than longer throw smaller cones. Most valve amp friend speakers are massive, even without horn loading. But for me, the 23s were the limit of what my room would take. I’ve never contested that a Nova can drive 26s. Merely whether it should.
It comes down to balance. People argue about whether a monkfish is superior to a mullet. I’d say that it might be slightly preferable but I’d be unhappy with both. The trick is to closely match the relative performance window of each component. If something is holding the system back, it causes money to be wasted on all the components further up the chain. If something is too capable, at best it is a waste of funds. At worst it shows up flaws further up the chain. With high end speakers, the latter can be a common problem.
Very well put. The source first mantra was particularly espoused by Chris Frankland/HiFi Review, iirc, but Kronos Sparta/Nait1/Wharfedale Diamonds (strictly for eg) would be as silly as Rega P3/Supernait/DBL’s.
I have used these components as extremes, but believe, as you have said, that balance within a system ( as in life, really) is vital, according to individual taste, and that, ultimately, the loudspeakers have the greatest single impact upon the sound (excluding variables such as room size/construction etc).
I recently tried my friends 21’s while he was on holiday and to be honest in my system in my room the balance was pretty much bang on, compared to my current 26’s.
I had always thought my 26’s needed much more room and a better front end than I currently use, don’t get me wrong, the 26’s are excellent speakers and I do like what they can do but the better balance was definitely when using the 21’s.
I’m in the process of changing but needed to listen to a few more options before I purchase.
Bookshelf speakers seem to go down to about 40Hz which is adequate for the base guitar but the double base needs speakers that go lower. Maybe our choice of speakers is influenced by our choice of music. I mostly listen to classical music, in which the lower registers are quite subtle, but critical to the performance. I need to hear notes below 40Hz. When I tried a pair of SF Olympica Nova 1s it took me a while to twig that double basses had been stripped out of the sound produced by my PMC Twenty5.24s. On the other hand when I listen to non classical music, the bass in my 6x4x3m room might be deemed to be too much.
Twenty5.23s did not work for me and 26is added little to my 24s
Hi Alan, think your points raised are very valid, choice of music must play a large part in your selection of the best speakers for you.
I have never really taken to classical music which should make my choice straightforward but because I have very varied tastes it’s not so easy.
I recently had a listen to the latest 21i but found it carried a little too much edge for me, the search continues, just a matter of trying different options, ideally in my own room/system but this is proving easier said than done.
I think few standmounts go down to 40Hz undiminished. Also, in point of fact, standard tuning on 4 string double basses and bass share the same lowest note, E1 (41.2 Hz), and while some double basses go down to C1 (32.7 Hz), 5 and 6 string bass guitars with lower string go down to B0 (30.9 Hz). Then there is organ music and synth bass, but that’s another story…
I have been using PMC Twenty5 23s for around 4 years and really enjoy them. I have used them initially with Quad 34/306 combination and moved to Naim in March 2022 with NAC202 and NAP200DR. Both sets of amplifers had no problem in driving them. My room is approx. 7.5m by 3.5m with the speakers situated at the end of the room. They are approx. 60cm from the rear wall. My experience is that they are detailed and have a good deep base that is well defined and fast. Imaging is very good and they excel with vocals. The room does have fitted carpets and a three-piece suite which probably controls any risk of harshness. They do take some time to run in and have found that they have a great sound and have no plans to change them in the future. I did also audition some twenty5 24s which also sounded fantastic but I felt they would overpower the room.
Does anyone have an opinion on the twenty5.24i? I’ve got an option an a nicely priced (for NZ) pair, but I’m not able to try them out at home beforehand.
I’ve heard a pair of Fact.8 at another forum member’s house last year (they were wonderful, but unfortunately not available in NZ), so I’m on the horns of a dilemma whether to get the 24i’s or hold out until I get across to Australia next and hope I can find some facts there…
I’ve not heard the 24s but… most comparisons I’ve read of the Fact8 have pitted it against the Twenty5.26 and concluded the Fact8 the slightly better speaker but the 26 the more bombastic and more forgiving of imperfect recordings.
I’ve heard them back to back with 25.23is on the end of a full New Classic system.
I preferred them to the 23i’s; being more transparent and better at lower volumes. Much bigger speaker though and perhaps better in the large demo room.
Similar fast and dynamic presentation. Both very good. Probably room dependent.
