I appreciate it’s a subjective question (or at least the answer will be) but as I’m considering upgrading my P8/Apheta 3 to a P10/Apheta 3 I wanted to hear from those who have made the same move whether the improvement is substantial (or not). As it currently looks I’m not sure I’ll be able to do a comparison demo. Currently on a Naim break in my main system, so running the P8 into a Moon 600i V2 integrated via a Gold Note phono stage (PH10 + PSU10). Speakers are Dali Epicon 6. Thanks in advance for any experience based inputs.
I went for P10 on it’s launch,I did audition the P8 in direct comparison on the day.I couldn’t put my finger on exactly what the difference was,but somehow the P10 was just a more complete “ musical “ experience.
That probably doesn’t help you,your ears etc,but if you’ve been happy with the P8 I can only assume you wouldn’t feel let down with the P10. Good luck.
I should add that what also influenced my choice was the thought that I don’t intend to upgrade/change the turntable in the future,so went for what I consider a perfectly satisfying “end game “ as far as vinyl playing goes.
If you want a P10 and have the money, get it. It won’t be worse and you won’t have a constant ‘what if?’ Every time you play a record.
A P10 will… quite definitely be about twice the price of a P8, at about GB£4k.
So is should be twice as good…? But somehow I doubt it…
YMMV, as always.
The usual laws of diminishing returns apply of course. A P2 is very good VFM for £500, and I am not sure that any of us would say that a P8 is 300% better (or over 400% better with a better PSU and cartridge). Perhaps whatever scale is being used is a long way from being linear?
I only have the P8 so can only guess on the upgrade, but I would perhaps consider the P10 if I wanted to upgrade the cartridge and make use of the better arm/mount/rigidity etc. Using the same cart would there be such an obvious difference?
I think we can be sure the scale is NOT linear. Something costing twice as much, will not be twice as good. It will be ‘a bit better’. VFM doesn’t apply here. Thats not generally - how HiFi works…!!!
If the COST of a change is worth it TO YOU, then it is. Simples…
No further justification is needed…!!
Assuming what you want is affordable I’ve always found I only ever regret not buying something and never regret buying. That said I do rely on my wife to push me from dithering to buying. Assuages the guilt of raiding the family vault.
soundwise not much, except for you re wallet
The obvious big bit you’re getting is the rb3000 arm. As soon as you move/touch it, you know. Had one fitted to my Gyro SE a couple of years ago. Sharpened everything up. Best upgrade imo.
Has anyone had an rb 3000 on an lp12. (Asking for a friend, obviously)
Thanks all for the replies. I’ve been in hi-fi long enough to know that the law of diminishing returns, “what if”, and subjective perceptions apply. Was really just looking for “objective” experiences from others who might have done the same upgrade, i.e. impressions of the scale of (perceived) improvement in areas such as clarity, definition, timing, detail, texture etc. I’m pretty sure the P10 is better, most probably due to the tonearm (and perhaps speed control and platter), but how much better is the question. Of course it won’t be twice as good (not sure how one would determine that anyway), just looking for a sense of the scale of improvement. For instance, my Gold Note phono stage was very good on its own but really came to life with the added PSU (much like Naim amps in general).
I haven’t moved from the p8 to p10 (I own the 8), but have spent two extended listening sessions listening to both. I would say the 10 has better resolution/ clarity and imaging. It is noticeable. At the moment I don’t own a great deal of records. Hence the choice of 8. If I had lots of them, I would consider an upgrade on the 8. Hope that helps.
But the key point is yes the upgrade is noticeable, not incredibly marginal.
This is a “subjective” experience you seek.
It cannot be objective.
Thanks, that’s very helpful.
I know, hence the quote marks.
I am pretty sure that if the rest of your system is good enough and set up well enough, you would easily notice the difference. I can say that when I moved from P9 (RB1000 version), which I thought sounded really good, to the P10, it was immediately apparent that the P10 is much better.
Went from 3->6->10. Didn’t do an 8 in the middle. 10 is definitely very noticably better than the 6. Sounds fab with my newly acquired 552/500 setup.
To be perfectly honest, you probably won’t tell any difference.
You are running the same cartridge, the same everything else, apart from arm, and deck.
The biggest difference is going to be with the cartridge, and the hour’s played on each, plus then how much weight difference you have between turntables.
I would also say you probably could do with a better phono stage to help realise what you have already, and then it down to the rest off the system being up to the task of providing the better sound.
But even after all that, i would have the P10 over a P8, as it will be more than adequate unless you really go for it.