Simon, I’m not referring to the tone controls. I have not enabled those. I’m more interested in thoughts on the DSP sampling conversions. I have been playing around a bit with upsampling to DSD128 vs streaming files in native format. In the case of 24/96 FLAC I think what I’m hearing is that the upsampling to DSD128 softens the dynamics a bit, but it also attenuates the output about 6db or so. I need to spend some more time listening to be more sure.
I took Roon Core off my Mac Mini and moved it to a NUC to run it in a dedicated and optimized environment. I use the Mac Mini for a few other things, including ripping CDs. On one couple occasions I got dropouts on playback with some frequency until I rebooted the Mac and restarted Core.
The NUC was not an expensive change (less than $600) and I’m glad I migrated to it.
I believe all Naim DACs convert DSD to PCM, so one might imagine that there would be no benefit to conversion to DSD in Roon. Possibly even a disadvantage if the streamer’s workload is increased. Still, if it sounds good, I guess all that doesn’t matter.
Yes DSD upsampling makes it sound a little less edgy but it can make some sound just a bit lifeless. It does depend on the filer you use too. I much prefer to use minimum phase but it’s does not work for all material.
Nothings sounds edgy to me. The NXD2 sounds great with or without DSP upsampling. I just have to spent some more time with it to determine the plus/minuses of either.
I have some 24/192 Blue Note jazz that was mastered AAA on vinyl at the same time. I might compare the digital to the vinyl (playing them simultaneously and switching the preamp input to compare). That might help me hear the differences between streaming with and without DSP upsampling.
Ok I wouldn’t really refer to that generically as DSP, that is transcoding. My view is best leave the rendering to the DAC, and only transcode in a media server if you need to. Delta Sigma/DSD conversion to PCM is a lossy inexact process - and a good DAC is most likely going to do that in a way that is most optimum for that particular DAC renderer. But sure as it is inexact - taste comes into play and you might prefer the Roon way as opposed to the DAC manufacturers way. Do what personally sounds most appealing to you.
Was that for me? If so, yes is the answer. It’s not massive, with the greater micro-dynamics, clarity, reduced overhang and lower noise floor showing more on some recordings than others, but it’s nice, synergistic with other incremental improvements and means there’s really no good reason to keep the NAS that I have been able to think of so far.
Aww painful - it sounds like that Mac was quite underpowered/limited or there was a bug somewhere. I typically run with 14x to 20x processor headroom on advanced DSP activities on my iMac at the same time … which is not noticeable as any performance hit to any apps running on the Mac… in other words an iMac is ridiculously over powered to only run Roon Core with typically less than 5% loading on advanced DSP functions
My Mac Mini is a 2012 Core i7 with 16 GB RAM. I think the machine is up to the task, but as it’s been through 7 years of use and os updates and was used for some time as a software development machine. It just probably has some pebbles in its shoes. Now I don’t really need it for anything else (have a '18 MBP for development), so I may just wipe it and start over, keeping it for misc duties like ripping CDs. I might expose a smb share that ROCK can see for database backups that in turn will be backed up to my Time Capsule.
Wow that sounds exactly like my plan. Like I said in another thread (I think) do keep us updated on sound quality/performance with your ROCK. Your Mac mini is the same vintage as mine.
DSD to PCM conversion is not always well implemented in all DACs. My experience on Naim Dac is using Roon’ DSP to do DSD to PCM conversion sounds much better than using DoP. Using USB stick to play DSD files on Naim Dac still not that good.
Remember DoP is identical to DSD in regard to the encoded pulse density stream info.
Naim work natively in PCM, even though some of the newer TI DACs they use can natively work in Pulse Density Modulation as well as Pulse Code Modulation.
Therefore Naim will transcode DSD/PDM to PCM using their Analog Devices SHARC processor. This will follow a specific algorithm, and as I have said conversion of DSD to PCM is a subjective compromise and so there will be different flavours of conversion… you simply choose the one that sounds personally favourable. You will probably find that with the newer higher end streamers such as the NDX2 and ND555 the conversion sounds better, as noise decoupling from the SHARC processor is improved.
DSD SQ on Naim is discussed several times on old and new forum. I did not have a chance to hear new ND streamer but I play new Uniti many times.
For similar price range CHORD did a good job on DSD playback. CHORD also convert DSD to PCM inside DAC and the result is pretty good so I never use Roon to do the conversion before sending to CHORD Dac.
Until now, I had a NUC with its standard case and its standard power supply.
I read some reviews and comments about sound quality improvements with fanless NUCs powered buy a LPS.
To be honest, I was sceptic.
How could a fanless case and a LPS be an improvement when the Core is networked (connected to the streamer via an Ethernet network) ? It doesn’t make much sense, does it?
My wife needed a new computer. She inherited the “old” NUC and I bought a NUC mainboard, the needed parts, an Akasa fanless case and a Teddy Prado power supply (I had the whole stuff for a quite good price).
So now, what about the outcome?
Well, I hear a slight difference (on the usual sound criteria). But don’t we always hear a difference? I also hear a difference between morning and evening listening sessions… Fatigue, attention, etc. makes a difference too.
Well, I guess the “wife test” should provide a definitive answer.
I found a minor uplift when I switched to fanless, but that just could be it being a different computer and in a different location. I recently added an LPS too its given again a minor uplift with tighter bass. I only really noticed the other week when I decided to switch back to the original PSU.
Most significant difference to sq was to use REW to make readings and get Home Audio Fidelity to create me convolution filters to use in Roons DSP section to correct for the room. Feels like a new system.
Is your NUC a server with a separate player or and all-in-one player?
I did a very similar build to you to assemble a NUC running ROCK. I have a second NUC in another AKASA case (but with no drives) that is a player running RoonBridge on Audio-Linux from a USB thumb-drive. The player NUC is connected to a MUTEC MC3+USB that reclocks and converts USB to SPDIF for a nDAC. The results are certainly very good.
Even a basic computer power supply on the player gave very good results but a borrowed 12v/5a Teddy (thanks nbpf!) certainly improved the clarity of the sound. More lately I’ve bought an HDPlex 200w LPS and this does everything the Teddy does and more. I haven’t tried any power supply upgrades on the server NUC.
The NUC is connected to my ND555 through my local network.
[NUC]----------[switch]-----------[ND555]
The FanLess case and the Teddy Prado didn’t improve the sound that much. Maybe a bit, but nothing really significant.
To be honest I wasn’t expecting a real improvement as the NUC is networked. But considering that some Roon Rock users seemed to hear an improvement I tried anyway
But your scenario is quite different and it makes sense to take care of your direct connection setup.
That’s right and seems quite obvious. I was quite aware of that but did the experiment anyway. An expensive experiment, especially when the result is as expected… I now have a very expensive Roon Rock box
I also hear a difference between morning and evening listening sessions… Fatigue, attention, etc. makes a difference too.
