Granted.
I have 2 very simple questions
Can anyone describe what is actually happening physically (at the particle and energy-field levels) when a circuit or component is energised with electricity?
Does anyone know how that process is influenced by vibration? Is it altered, disturbed, changed, immune?
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I know. Iām heading for a coronary! Thanks for remembering me!
Brilliant questions and almost certainly the answer is no.
Thatās not to say it isnāt possible. With the right [expensive] equipment, and the knowledge to interpret the results correctly and devise a controlled test, it is possible to measure microphonics entering a device via a cable. And with an oscillascope of sufficient resolution and the right types of probes, determine what, if any, impact this has on a test signal. I should reiterate this is non trivial. Equipment, expense, expertise.
At the most basic level you are dealing with the laws of electromagnetism. You cannot have one without the other. Electricity induces magnetism and magnetism induces electricity. Thatās a fairly dangerous oversimplification but is a good starting point. One could ask whether vibrations of a ferrous material induces a change in current on a carrier signal within itās proximity. But thatās largely a foolās errand. Logically, you start with measurement to capture observable phenomenon. And if they exist, then conduct experiments to prove/ disprove a hypothesis for that observation. That starts to edge into more than electrical engineering. Possibly experimental physics. Once you get there though, the next logical question is, are my cloth ears really more sensitive instruments than all the equipment needed to prove/disprove this? And was it worth the time?
The last question was rhetorical. Think of all the music you could have listened to instead of pondering all that.
Peter, remember this is a public forum where the only common interest is Naim and hifi. You will get all sorts of āpersonalitiesā posting on here with all sorts of differing opinions. For the most part, discussions on here are civil and constructive, despite differing views.
There are one or two topic areas however that seem to get Forumites overly excited, for example cables (analogue, power and ethernet) and some topics related to LANs (switches and other network devices). This might be because there are a bunch of theories in circulation which some care about and others donāt.
Believe me this forum is a delight compared to some of the other hifi/streaming forums.
Personally I am interested when someone posts a positive finding from a rather low cost change, and whatās not to like with a cheap/free upgrade. I have fettled and tweaked many times based on āfindingsā on here. Some made no difference, others produced a nice uplift (be that from better SQ or just tuning/room interaction effects) and some made the listening experience worse. I embrace those that work and reject the others.
I too believe we are dealing with complex and sensitive systems here, and I include the ear/brain as well as digital/analogue systems and acoustics, and that apparently minor/insignificant changes can affect what we are hearing. Although I am an engineer by trade and have an interest in science, I do not need an explanation of what physical, electrical, magnetic, acoustic phenomena are causing the change in sound, but am always interested to read about theories and proven explanations, where they exist.
So I would encourage anyone who has a theory of how to make their system sound better, and are inquisitive enough, to experiment/explore and feed back here. There should be no pressure to justify how their perceived improvement has been caused. All you need to do is just end the post with āā¦.this may not work in your system but why not give it a go and seeā¦ā.
Keep posting Peter.
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Thanks Nigel
Very true Nigel. The level of excitement - in terms of potential for excessive grouchyness and entrenched position-taking - seems to be inversely proportional to the significance of the component in the scheme of things.
People can chatter away quite happily about turntables, about amplifiers and about speakers, accept that tastes vary wildly and not fall out. Yet introduce routers, switches and ethernet cables into the discussion and all hell breaks loose. People get more and more bogged down in their arguments and simply wonāt budge. Itās all most strange.
I know I said above that Iām a simple soul but Iām not really, Iām scientifically trained, but Iām more than happy to accept that there is loads out there we donāt understand and probably never will. Good scientists always accept that they only know a small amount and that there is just so much more to know. I find it very narrow minded when people trot out the line āIām a X engineer and I know that what you are saying cannot be the caseā. Why canāt putting a router on a chopping board, a piece of carpet or whatever make a difference? Itās simply a case of trying things out. But people shouldnāt say it canāt without trying it, because maybe, just maybe, it can.
And it is this that gets my goat. Itās as if some are of the opinion that this change cannot make a difference so I wonāt lower myself to even try it, and then tell those with more open minds why this tweak is nonsense.
If you have tried a tweak and it doesnāt work in your system than we need to know, because that information is as valuable as the claim that it did work for someone else. For example, we have learned, or at least I have, that the effect of certain Ethernet cables and Ethernet devices is very system dependent, particularly the streamer and other attached devices, possibly why we have had so many ālively debatesā on here about streaming cables for example. So it is perfectly possible for the effect of any tweak to be (partly) system dependent. Therefore differing opinions on the effect of a given tweak can be perfectly valid and even an objective view of the actual effect in our particular system.
The more experiences of a given tweak we can gather, the greater the knowledge and learning. But it needs an open mind and a bit of effort to actually try out some tweaks.
I accept some will have no interest in fiddling, fettling and tweaking, and that is fine. All I would say is that my system would not sound as good as is does today without some of the tweaks reported on here. Tweaking can be fun and occasionally gets you a free or very cheap upgrade.
I wonāt waste more of my time, but just one thing; The proposed experiment aimed at testing YOUR hypothesis that vibration has an effect not mine. Get off your fake horse
Are we at a point now where people who dismiss Peter Beltās tweaks without trying would be considered close minded?
I proposed no such hypothesis. I donāt own a horse, fake or otherwise.
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Really?
This looks to me like a question, yes? Is a question a hypothesis?
It was the premise for your enquiry, why else would you mention it?
I mentioned it because I had heard that some people had reported improvements from isolating their routers on racks/tables of some description. It is my understanding that such isolation accessories function, in crude terms, by reducing vibration. So I asked if people isolate their routers from vibration.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to point out to me where I am hypothesising that vibration has an effect on the sound quality of a router? As far as I am aware I asked a simple straight-forward question.
If I were to ask you if you thought that the moon was made of green cheese then would that mean that I was hypothesising that it is?
You didnāt state this in your original post, none of us have the ability to read minds. Unsurprisingly I can only go off what you have written.
Spiked supports may provide isolation from some frequencies e.g. Fraim, Atacama supports.
I donāt know, I certainly never said you were.
The point is that you didnāt go off what I had written. You claim in an earlier post that I had hypothesised that routers are affected by vibration. Yet in your last comment you refute this!
Do you actually have any idea what you are talking about because you seem to me to be talking complete gibberish!
Ignored and Iām out.
So can twerking.
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