Come now…I think Peter’s widely acknowledged skill and experience with the LP12 goes a bit beyond “cobbling”.
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I think we are agreeing that people can decide for themselves, and that there is nothing wrong with different people reaching different conclusions.
Mind you, my house was both very second-hand and very definitely ‘cobbled together’ when I got it.
Describing what Peter at Cymbiosis does as ‘cobbling together’ might be thought of as gratuitously offensive to the man and the business, but I am sure he is thick-skinned enough not to be too hurt.
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“In modern day, a cobbler is a master craftsman, an artisan.”
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A cobbler is not the same as cobbled together.
cobble somethingtogether
phrasal verb with cobble verbUK /ˈkɒb.əl/ US /ˈkɑː.bəl/
Add to word list
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I cannot disagree with this statement, a Majik new and a 33/45 power supply upgrade and that could well be my lot other than new cartridges from time to time. Do I see myself adding or changing parts in the years to come, I honestly don’t know.
If the LP12 is as half as good as I remember from my last demo around 15 years ago I don’t see me changing anything, but maybe after a year or two i’ll catch upgradeitis.
Deciding which way to go is getting harder and harder.
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There’s alot to be said for a new LP12 Majik. When I started my LP12 journey I spent a fair bit getting it working well. Tonearm bearing were shot, so tonearm was rebuilt. Then I changed the bearing to Cirkus and power supply to Lingo 1.
I have subsequently upgraded subchassis, bearing, tonearm, cart and phonostage.
Whatever you do, LP12 changes are very expensive. If you buy new it would be good to look at Lingo 4 and tonearm options, and see if you want some of those upgrades at the start.
Getting a dealer to build used from old parts is a cheaper option to start with. However, when you start changing out bits later down the line it soon adds up. I have just spent over £5000 on mine in recent round of LP12 upgrades.
And I still want a Radikal 1 or 2 power supply!
I think the LP12 is a fantastic turntable but it’s pricey.
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It was meant tongue in cheek. I’m sure Peter is a great guy and genuinely good at what he does. I do think we need to be a bit careful about elevating people to guru status over something that is actually not beyond the capability of many good dealers out there. Turning used parts into complete LP12s is not exactly rocket science!
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One of the keys points mentioned to me a while back was that if I bought a secondhand deck for around £1200-£1400 without the Karousel bearing then the first thing I should do was upgrade to that bearing, at that point my initial spend was going to be about the same or just above that of a Linn Majik build your own kit, the Karousel is one of the ‘must have’ upgrades so buy the Linn kit not a second hand deck was the advice.
I have no doubt that if I buy from Peter Swain the assembly will be first class, I have no concerns in that area.
If I am honest I do like the idea of buying new and going on a musical journey with my new deck, however on the other side I could have a LP12 which is a few steps up the ladder with with a mix of new and parts discarded by others on their own respective musical journeys, but this deck could well be an improvement on the new Majik SQ wise.
In many ways it is a good dilemma to have, and yes I will post updates.
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If it has a new Cirkus bearing it will be good. The Karousel was meant to be a huge upgrade. I didn’t find that. I went from newish Cirkus to Karousel and couldn’t tell much difference tbf.
Biggest upgrades I have found have been Kore, new used tonearm Ekos 2 and changing to MC cart.
The Lingo 1 was very useful too as I wanted to play 45s.
I wouldn’t underestimate tonearm, cart and phonostage combination.
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The question of value for money here is actually a really good one. There are those who think the best vfm is to get someone (like Peter) to build a TT to your preferred specification from parts, but have you actually compared that to the competition? It could be that a Rega (or whatever) at the same price point is clearly better. So at this point it’s not just about outright performance, but a certain pride of ownership that the Sondek brings. Personally I just wouldn’t have that same satisfaction with a bitsa LP12.
Surely all LP12’s are bitsa, even new ones. It just depends which bits you want at what level. Buying previously owned bits and having them assembled by a knowledgable builder just allows a higher spec for the price paid.
New vs old is always a personal choice, Linn or Naim or any other.
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The more information I have then in theory the easier it should be to make the correct decision.
This is going to be a big investment so i’m not going to rush into making a decision today or in the next few weeks, I have time to research, listen and talk to people to get this right.
The responses from everyone have been great, sure there are some who think a mix of new and pre-loved is the way forward whereas others think that a completely new LP12 is the right direct to take. Neither is right or wrong.
What I have to do is sift everything and work out what is the most important factor for me, once I know that I will have my direction.
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Nicely summarised.
At the end of the day it will be me making the decision to go one way or the other and neither is wrong.
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I bought my LP12 used and apart from my old Lingo 1 have upgraded it with new parts at a dealer so apart from the plinth top-plate, platter and lid it’s brand new. Majik, Selekt and Klimax are simply marketing allowing one to jump in at a particular price point. Anyone can order a brand new LP12 and specify the configuration they desire from the list of available parts. So all LP12s are essentially bitsas. I find mine very satisfying.
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The LP12 journey can end up being a long one for sure.
Take my example……little did I know 42 years ago when I bought my LP12 “basic” (there was no Majik/Selekt/Klimax specs back then) that it would take umpteen upgrades and 40+ years to achieve Klimax spec.
Here is my original receipt for the princely sum of £380. And look…….I caught the upgrade bug only 7 months later with a Valhalla. On and on it goes.
The only 2 original parts to my deck today are the outer platter and the lid hinges🤣
I’ve also included some pics of the original paraphernalia included with the Sondek back in the day. I guess there are folks on eBay that collect that stuff?
All in all…. starting with a Majik at £3,700 these days is a great way to go. Yes, the journey can be expensive but enjoying your music at every stage and proceeding at tortoise pace rather than hare pace can be very rewarding.
Finally, as many others have said, a great dealer is worth their weight in gold. Over the last 3 decades I’ve only had 2 specialists work on my deck: Derek Jenkins at Infidelity in Kingston (sadly Derek is no longer with us. RIP) and Peter at Cymbiosis. One of the key takeaways for both gentlemen was/is…… it doesn’t matter what level you’re at or your available budget…… you are still an important customer to us and we’ll get you the very best for your budget and requirements.
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Reading this thread I have come to realise that owning an LP12 could be extremely detrimental to my savings account if I am not very very careful.
I have to say that at this moment its about 50.1/49.9 in favour of a new deck and somehow get the Lingo 4.
I did ask about the Krane tonearm and its capability but I guess that most of the LP12 owners on here have moved away from entry level tonearms, and there aren’t too many members who have a basic Majik set-up, making getting some info on the Krane hard to find. From what I have learnt it is a Clearaudio based arm so isn’t going to be dud and should be a step up in quality.
Thanks for chipping in and good luck on your battle with Mr C.
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But some come with all new bitsa while others come with a mix of new and pre loved bitsa, and some are all pre-loved bitsa.
There is a lot to be said for getting an LP12 built from a mix of brand new and pre-loved and yes you can jump a rung or two up the SQ ladder, but for me what is that ladder as I have no perception of it’s base.
A new Majik complete from Linn could be my base and I never change it because it is so good.
It is so so difficult to decide which way to go.
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This is exactly why going new might be my answer, brilliant story and maybe what I need to do.
Thanks.
Visit to Cymbiosis and hear a new Majik alongside others. They have a large ready to play selection of LP12’s, from what I read. Then you’ll have your baseline I’d guess.
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If it was me and starting again with the knowledge I have I would get a used LP12 with an Ittok or Ekos 1 or 2, Lingo 1, 2, 3 or 4, Cirkus bearing, Kore and Trampolin.
If it has some of these basics then it will save some money. You may need to factor in a service of tonearm as well. I wouldn’t worry overly about Karousel if it has Cirkus.
I wouldn’t get an LP12 with an old Akito or Linn Basik arm. Get the best used you can afford and save some money.
Get a good MC cart and phonostage too.
Or buy brand new with Lingo 4. If you prefer new then get new. I prefer used as someone else has taken the brunt of depreciation.
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