Possibly plus RF noise, not affecting the data, but potentially causing modulation when it reaches the DAC altering the audio (a known phenomenon, some DACs mors susceptible than others). But if that happens, how significant are switch PSs is quite another question - but whether or not RF is an issue is nothing to do with burn-in…
As is my cafetière, 3 years on the coffee just says more, more every day.
1 Like
I don’t know about that. But it certainly does impact on the sound.
1 Like
Digital systems function in an analogue world. I was sceptical until I heard differences for myself in my own home, with my own system. While I don’t have the knowledge to explain the changes, I know they exist.
Arrange a home demo, and be sure to let us know what you think afterwards.
2 Likes
There absolutely is such a thing and I can even get the jitter value on my current connection from NTT via their measurement tool online.
Any digital connection relies on clock alignment of endpoints and is therefore open to the possibility of jitter. If you think otherwise, feel free to tell NTT, one of the largest telecoms infrastructure providers in Asia, that they’re wrong.
1 Like
Jim, hi
But it’s either getting in to GND or signal somewhere or it doesn’t matter ?
This just isn’t how it works when it comes to data packets on ethernet, this isn’t VoIP. I realize I am not going to change your mind here, so I digress.
We don’t have to be convinced, we trust our ears.
3 Likes
I’d move them away from the fireplace then 
3 Likes
i only had a burn out period in 2007, which was very bad 
Just so long as you don’t fall back on ‘ones’ and ‘zeros’ - those mythic beasts of digital.
3 Likes
Jitter on ethernet is a fact of clocked digital transmissions. While it doesn’t make it to the audio chain directly (or even audibly as it is a facet of the link layer between ethernet controllers not the DAC) it can induce failed packets thus increasing both retransmits and out of order packets.
The degree to which this would ever be a problem though in a home network is near zero. Unless something on the network is totally stuffed or misconfigured, those retransmits and out of order packets would be measured in single digits over an hour… Though much higher between home and a cloud service. Important to note that those additional packets are generally caused by 101 other things rather than jitter.
10 extra packets on a home network in 60 seconds won’t induce enough processing noise to be audible though.
The following document describes jitter mitigation with Cisco networks. It is in the context of VoIP which is over ethernet packet transfer. It affects everything but VoIP has some specific mitigation requirements. Nevertheless it is a good primer for understanding jitter on IP networks, is relatively short and not overly technical. Understanding Jitter in Packet Voice Networks (Cisco IOS Platforms) - Cisco
I recall (23 years ago) my 552 took about three months to break-in. One day it just sounded much better.
When I had it recapped and DR’d a few years ago it took about 4-5 weeks for it to sound good.
3 Likes
Yup. Also, not to forget every streamer has enough buffer to account for a massive amount of dropped or failed and subsequently resent packets never likely to happen on even the shoddiest of home networks. Jitter is just not a consequential parameter for the transmission of audio over Ethernet. Thanks for taking the time to explain it in more detail.
Reflecting on this as many will know 12 weeks ago I went 282/SC/250>252/300 and notwithstanding a couple of weeks in hospital I’ve been listening pretty much non-stop ever since, indeed R3 is on almost all day every day during daytime. Now the SC was well run in, the 300 ex-dem had miles on the clock, the 252 out the box.
So I couldn’t say what takes the longest to run in, and certainly never with any authority, but last night was just one of those eureka moments. I liked the idea of some blues so on CD went The Healer by John L-H. Oh 
, the expression, the staging, the placement of the instruments, Carlos’s guitar runs on the opening track, “heal me Carlos”, Bonnie Rait on I’m In The Mood - folklore has it that they both needed to towel off during the recording such was the intensity! George Thorogood’s ripping slide on Sally Mae, and then the simpler stuff the guitar parts and John L-H’s vocal not really anything like it.
Now hadn’t played the album for ages so I wonder if it would have had that impact had I played it on Day 1 when the 252 was out the box or the 300 cold because it had been stood down for 3/4 weeks? Or was I just really ready for that yesterday evening?
No conclusion but it was blindingly good.
9 Likes
The longest was probably a moving coil cartridge, my current Dynavector XX2. That sounded slightly better than my previous Dynavector a grade below. After about a month, I flipped an LP over and it changed hugely. I played side one again and couldn’t believe how much better it sounded. I was genuinely surprised.
1 Like
I am among those who have mixed feelings towards „burning in“ periods with electronics. I just play the music and never felt that an amp or cable got better with time. The only thing that really needed a burning in period was my classical guitar which had to open up and now sounds even better after some years of regular playing. It‘s the beautiful tone wood which makes older instruments sound better. I don‘t think that electricity causes similar effects with amps, turntables or speakers.
1 Like
FOCAL Stella Utopia takes the cake for me - 2020 end to 2023. Started off sounding like tin with shrilly highs and bright treble and don’t get me started on the sibilance. However, after many thousands of hours of burning in (Class D amp on burn in tone for at least 1k hours), things are turning around. Friends from out of town who are occasional visitor also said the same thing. Much more mellow and completely reformed like a different pair of speakers.
Naim Statement. First few hundred hours gave me a headache in the literal sense. I was so demoralised. However, things turned around after a few hundred hours. It’s been eight years. Pretty good now
4 Likes
Longest: Ultrasone Edition 5 (headphones) 1200hours
between hours 500-800 was so shrill and ‘horrible’ I couldn’t believe they actually reformed!
1200hours = listening perfection. (and maintained that sound since)
now that I have placed a comment in line with the OPs post; perhaps I can comment on how I came to the above conclusion; my method for auditioning etc… (and I am not interested in being told I am wrong or ‘psychology’ (my major) etc) (my opinion; just that- now for the non believers; welcome to read on - for the argumentative types who overflow every thread on the topic, even if not the topic of the thread they are on: no need to engage with me PLEASE)
I start with a few tracks (handful mostly selected decades ago)…
due to the nature of my buying habits attempting to buy better than what I have owned previously this becomes a little easier:
When I hear things I HAVE NEVER HEARD BEFORE (eg a lyric previously muffled, or instruments previously buried under other ‘layers’ of the music) IT STANDS OUT. This isn’t about ‘short audio memory’ etc; this is an overt and obvious ‘newly discovered sound’.
When I play new kit straight from the box, I find it gives something… I play my test tracks, take note of where the soundfield extends to, or the positioning ‘front to back’ of instruments whilst they pan left to right etc… (again, carefully selected test tracks that TELL me key aspects for what I seek)…
I then let the unit play on (depending on what I am trying to achieve, like presently breaking in an amp which has pre and poweramp stages, I just have it playing anything… happy that electrons are firing through it and it has to push and recover etc; if it is speakers- I take a different approach (a little) and use specific tracks including pink noise/white noise and meditation tracks (like Holosync), and discs like the Prodigys’ Fat of the Land and Enigma MCMXC (erm 1990 in Roman numerals; hope I got it correct) and have them on repeat… mostly at a low volume, but I do vary the volume slightly and over a range that is below my typical drive levels, with occasional louder moments (generally the noise tracks)… and 'every so often I check in again on the music.
If the headphones or amps still have a lot of bass to tighten or treble to gain, I do not listen for more than about thirty seconds, and leave for another day or so, every so often checking in, but at every opportunity I can ‘varying the volume a little’.
After a certain point the bass will be a more normal mix with the midrange/treble starts to stabilise…
I generally know it is on the last less than 20% of the significant breakin time when the high frequency microdetails stuff starts to reveal itself… (well!).
This is where I generally 'sign off on the burn in process as I know it may still continue to improve, but the changes that remain are slighter and whilst may be profound… I simply do not have the patience to wait anymore…
At this point I compare to my earlier notes or listening experience (if overtly different to any thing experienced previously, and hence obvious to my mind) and note the changes that some patience has brought to the process.
In this way, having done so for many many years and having done this to much equipment, I have learned a few things along the way… (I can now make predictions based on 30 second inspections as to ‘how far we have come along’, ‘and ETA to when it will all normalise’.
I do not always get those predictions right.
When I got into planar headphones (a short fad in MY life), I learned that they generally needed a few hundred hours to have their bass normalise and their soundfield open up.
When I applied much of my headphone ‘breakin game’ to some Focal Clears; I gave up.
They were HORRIBLE out of the box. So much so, that like much equipment I simply return to the store if it is truly atrocious out of the box (burn in is usually the subtle stuff (bass texture aside and layering and soundstage), and if the overall playback isn’t to my taste; NOT THE EQUIPMENT for me.
But those Focal Clears? ergh. They were so Muddy and confused.
It was a case of me seeing why people talk about ‘brain burn in’ (it would require me adjusting to THAT sound)…
I let them go through my ritual for weeks. (too many positive reviews to simply write them off)
They did start to get a soundfield, and they did start to reveal instruments in the mix that could be layered over each other (and missed on ‘lesser’ equipment); they now did not sound like $50 knockoffs… but; what was obvious to me was that they had nothing to offer me over my Ultrasone Edition 5 which were clearly a much much higher class product.
So, instead of actually wearing them (<4/5 hours on my head) I have them up for sale…
Do I feel that whoever gets them will have a better set than ‘new from shop’; absolutely.
I take my burn in seriously…
Some AK Zero1 IEMs took a lot of time to find their stride,… but once they did, they are some of the best IEMs that a person could ever wish for. Breakin for them MAKES SENSE due to the nature of having balanced armature mids, a planar for high frequency (something I have already identified takes a long breakin time and that is when playing FULL FREQUENCY sound) and a dynamic driver for low frequency… (but a small and stiff one, again, identified previously as requiring more than average breakin times)… The AK Zero1 has no doubt been the most impressive change ever from out of box state to ‘fully burned in’… they are amazing.
Knowing that people want to tell me it is all in my head; I even have another set, BNIB (brand new in box), to enjoy comparing to one day… ie if my child ever raises the topic of burn in being a myth or something; I can say " ‘see’ for yourself ".
Ignoring the antagonising statements of the AK Zero1 (challenge accepted?), the rest of my ‘logic’ is based on being scientific in everything I do.
And trust me when I say I haven’t gone to bugger all detail with regards to how much effort I go to when doing these sorts of ‘tests’.
Having owned top of the tree kit that is truly reference, allowed easy inspection of ‘up front’ electronics and parts rotations.
Having a stable familiar base line is essential.
The worst product for me, regarding breakin, was a Topping D90 DAC, I even bought it second hand… it had no stage depth… and sounded so horrible (vs every other DAC I had/had heard) even after a few weeks on a range of power setups and cables and…
it was just ‘bad’. Tuned for the spec sheet clearly ZERO musicality.
I didn’t bother breaking it in fully (if it was ever going to improve)- can’t polish a turd.
(qualifier being ‘against other DACs I have used’; I gather for many that Topping is, erm, ‘top of the tree’ in their eyes: apologies if I offened)(perhaps try the most basic DAC ever made by AudioGd, I have one I am willing to loan!)(see- not against ChiFi, just spec sheet warfare parts that sound horrible)
/rant out… clearly I am delusional (believe in power/cables and DACs sounding different); probably best to not entangle with me
smiles with’
(Rene)
2 Likes