Which move gives best sq?

No heat in the cabin this season then :smile:

Yeah, it will be cold. Winter is already here. When I went there for the inspection last weekend it was freezing cold already. -17 celsius. We have a rather big lot with lots of trees. As soon as one gets the heat up in the fire place, just about anything will burn😁

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Indeed - NDX didn’t become a bad product the day the NDX2 was launched.

It seems I’ve been the victim of a fraud regarding the NAC 282. If you are contemplating buying using a service the seller called epost by Deutsche Post. Be very careful. It looked professional enough to fool me. The freight and payment method was claimed to be safe where the seller wouldn’t get payed until the buyer accepted the item. However it has now been 20 days and nothing has been shipped to me. The seller doesn’t respond and I have contacted Deutsche Post, DHL, Nat west bank (to which I paid) and my own bank and asked for help to resolve this. I fear I have just lost 2175€. I also sold my 202 and 200DR so now I have no music. I miss them.

This is not good news. Could you elaborate regarding how you made the purchase?
I take it that this wasn’t eBay?

It wasn’t eBay. The seller announced the 282 on a Swedish site www.hifitorget.se. We agreed upon the aformentioned shipping/payment method as he said it was a service supplied by Deutsche Post. A few days later I received 2 emails from, what looked to be Deutsche Post given their email adress (kundenservice@paket-deutschepost.de). One of those mails contained information on how to pay and where to pay to. The pdfs’ attached looked very professional with one being an invoice and the other a freight order for DHL. I probably should’ve been more cautious.

Really sorry to hear this. :cry:

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Have you contacted Deutsche Post AG to see if they are aware of known scams using their company as a front. They may have information if others have been effected or if there are any ongoing investigations. Just a thought…

Very sorry to hear this.

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There’s another Swedish guy on this forum that got the same problem from what I suspect is the identical seller. You should get in contact with him making it a stronger claim to the police.

Yes I have. I filed a complaint about missing goods, on their web site and explained and described this situation.

I hope I never find myself in a situation like this … I guess it’s very unpleasant. however, if I can afford it, there are many small tricks that you can use to buy abroad trying to minimize the risks:

first of all NEVER pay by bank transfer but use the famous electronic exchange platform (PP) … it’s a safe method … if nothing is sent to you, or an empty box is sent to you, PP refunds everything. the important thing that the seller sells, PP does not cover anything if the purchaser manages the withdrawal. if the seller does not accept PP, then you leave the deal!

another little trick … before buying, try to have an exchange of information and ideas with the seller … it’s easy to understand if the vendor doesn’t know what he’s talking about … this could mean he doesn’t know what he’s selling and which does not even have the object.

last trick, when everything runs smoothly up to this point, I ask the seller to send me some photos of some details and especially the object with him holding a sheet of paper with my none and the date … only this is the final test that he has the item and is not cheating you … but you still have to pay with PP!

and then let us all remember that those who sell Naim know the used market value very well … so too low prices should make you suspicious …

I think that here nobody wants to give anything for free :wink:

I hope my experience can help …

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Yeah, an expensive way to learn a lesson this was (Joda)

I have just followed the same process with a seller from Germany (PP invoice, exchange of information, and photo on shipment). The article should arrive next week. Big tears :sob: if it doesn’t.

When buying and selling hifi gear in the UK I try to meet with the counter party for the handover, and I offer a home demo. Most people want to meet anyway for high-end handovers .

Ouch, sorry to hear this, that’s an expensive lesson. Over the last month or so I’ve bought five pieces of equipment privately (speakers, pre- and power amps, PSU, hard disk player) and collected all of them in person. Even aside from outright fraud I still want to see that I’m getting what I expected. If it doesn’t measure up I can walk and all I’ve lost is some time and the cost of the journey.

In the course of my search for the above I came across a classifieds site called Adpost. It was a real eye-opener in that I’d estimate at least 80% of the hi-fi ads I saw were clearly fraudulent (odd user names, unfeasibly low prices, single photos, descriptions cribbed from elsewhere on the web). The increasing willingness to buy things over the web unseen is giving fraudsters an absolute bonanza.

True that. This fraudulent behavior, no matter the reason, is truly dismantling trust and thus leading to a new and dissapointing moral where disbelief and skeptisicm becomes the moral guide line. It’s even led the EU and various countries and their state machinery to establish institutions specifically handling international fraud in the context of internet trade, both regarding person-person and business-person.

I am aware this is nothing new but possibly agrowing concern being the premise for the above.

Where there is problems there should be money to earn. Are there not companies out there that could act as a middle hand between seller and buyer? I wouldn’t care if delivery is slower, more expensive etc as long as I know I will get what I paid for.

  1. Make agreement with seller
  2. Pay middle hand company
  3. Middle hand collect product at seller
  4. When middle hand deliver product and buyer agree it is what paid for middle hand pay the seller

No risk for anyone. I’l luckily pay 100 EUR above freight for such a service because where I live there is extremely limited amount of high end hifi. I suppose I’m not alone in this situation.

As much as it pains me eBay is a fairly safe place to buy things, you only need to look at the number of highly regarded Naim dealers who use it.

I’ve bought all my Naim gear on eBay and have never had any problems so far. It works well. I think the eBay system works well in that if there is a problem there is a resolution centre and paying via PayPal gives extra peace of mind. I’ve also sold so much hifi on eBay both domestically and internationally. It gives you the widest audience. Obviously the fees are a bit high but it works for me.

I nearly got scammed when ‘buying’ a vehicle via a well known automotive listing site a few years ago. The imaginary vehicle was undervalued vs. market, by about 15%, sufficient to entice the buyer into a quick transaction.

The purported vehicle, UK registered and UK specification, was claimed to be in Southern Spain, and the seller suggested using an escrow service (I.e. temporary holder of money), even using logos of well known internet corporations on the emails, while the vehicle was transported to the UK so I could inspect it. This correspondence went as far as Spanish bank account details being provided - these did not match the name of the supposed escrow service provider and the actual email address was suspicious.

I reported this to the listing site, and, even as I did so, the vehicle listing disappeared.

There have been many people caught out by this type of scam - Aberdeen is another ‘location’ used - sufficiently far away to deter vehicle ( or any other asset) inspection, but with the security of an escrow service (false) being offered.

So, unless you know the seller, or you can underwrite the risk of a 100% write-off, the options appear to be a dealer or eBay. Get an invoice with serial number and full description to be sure…